Mclaren Mercedes MP4-25

[ringo]

The drawbacks are very minuscule, weight is probably a few grams than a typical fin. That is almost negligible, the driver could lose a greater mass of water than the mass in the f duct, after all it just folded carbon.

It reduces the upper area of the wing probably less than a percent, and even still the high pressure field of the wing is very tall, taller than 950mm, so the pressure acts on what little surface area there is above the duct as well.
The bulbous part adds little friction, in-fact less than we think becuase the bulbous part is shadowed by the air inlet, which has a larger frontal area. This is how well the Mclaren f duct is designed. Other teams have ram ducts sticking out in open air, which is a compromise.
About the adjustability, i think the team fabricates multiple end pieces, maybe a piece for every angle change they plan to use. That's a small price to pay.

The gain, as i mentioned, is like having 2 different cars on the track at once. The little milli newtons of drag, and grams of carbon, are an afterthought.

The beautiful thing as well is that no matter how other teams say they are building an f duct, it will never be controlled by the driver like in the Mclaren, and it will also never be as unobtrusive to the aerodynamics.
I feel amost sorry for the other teams when abu dahbi, Brazil and Monza come around. Mclaren dont have to compromise a setup for the interlagos back straight.

[myurr]

Don't forget Silverstone - another high downforce track with some nice straight bits.

But there is one other disadvantage, by having a bulbous fin McLaren can't make their rear wing assembly rotate in the same way as the Red Bull rear wing which looks like it has been giving them a similar advantage.

Now that there is indisputable video evidence (see the RB6 thread) I'm surprised we haven't heard more about this in the media.

[segedunum]

The advantage can be 0.5, 0.1, or even 2 seconds if we are at Abu dhabi . But i don't see how someone can guess how much it is worth. For all we know mclaren can develope a double acting F duct, that can blow as well as stall. Making things even more complicate.

Very easily. Other teams will have looked long and hard at the extra speed that McLaren have down straights, they will have looked at the amount of time they are losing to them there and they will have applied that advantage to other circuits to see whether it is an area that needs urgently looking at. The specifics of how McLaren's wing and system works or how the car is set up is irrelevant. Rival teams will have simply looked at the raw figures as to where the biggest performance difference is.

The gain, as i mentioned, is like having 2 different cars on the track at once.

It would be if the system was free like a flexi wing, but it's not.

I feel amost sorry for the other teams when abu dahbi, Brazil and Monza come around. Mclaren dont have to compromise a setup for the interlagos back straight.

McLaren's system is so specific and so inherently built into the design of the car I would be surprised if they didn't keep their advantage for most of the season, if not all of it. The way that system can be specifically controlled is a big advantage and they'll certainly have a larger volume of air running through it to play with. Monza should be a dead certainty from what we've seen.

However, the drawbacks are not miniscule at all. As we've seen with all the cars, packaging and space is at a serious premium and they are simply not going to have the leeway that other teams have back there to move components around, improve their packaging and balance and improve their aerodynamic efficiency. They will always be compromised. Given that they need to find some downforce relative to where Red Bull and Ferrari are then it's certainly a disadvantage.

Improvements in those areas add up to a lot of time over the course of a season and I half suspect that's why most teams don't want to try and put ducting through their cars. It's not that they couldn't, but compromising their packaging, balance and downforce is not something they want to do.

[PlatinumZealot]

I think it's has zero compromises. Most cars wings have like 4 different positions (from observation of the endplate). They can just make 4 transition pieces and call it a day.

Weight and drag and packaging is negligible compared to the advantage IMO.

[ringo]

Yes where the actual chamber is, no team would package parts that high in the car. What mclaren has there is literally an empty chamber, where otherwise nothing would be positioned there on the other cars. The only other thing that could be there is cooling air to run over the parts under the cover. And mclaren have solved that issue with their breezy engine covers, and it might get easier if they adopt the ferrari style exhaust gills.

The f duct cannot affect the car's balance when it is not working. The down-force that they need to find has nothing to do with the f duct system. In fact i think it's more an issue of the floor, general shape of the car and the diffuser combination.

The duct doesn't take anything away from the car in terms of down-force. It's a straight up non compromise, sorta like adding a portion of performance to get 105% from mech and aero instead of dropping the car to 95% to give the duct 5% of the total performance. The duct is literally like steroids without side effects; no weight and balance draw backs like KERS.

Frankly i don't think the mclaren will ever have the downforce the redbull has. The car is inherently inferior in it's shape. Front wing rear wing diffuser and floor parts can only do so much. The redbull shape is what they should have coppied like ferrari. Ferrari may have better luck equaling redbull in downforce.
The f duct is not holding them back from producing downforce. The car as a whole is. I still think it can beat the redbulls sometime though.

[Halgovern]

I just love the fact that McLaren have seriuosly thought about this car. In comparison, their 2009 car looked so underdeveloped until halfway through the season.

[Herr_Koos]

Frankly i don't think the mclaren will ever have the downforce the redbull has. The car is inherently inferior in it's shape.

Bold statement, that. I'd ask you to elaborate, but this isn't a performance comparison thread, so I won't.

[ringo]

I hope it can, but there is something about the geometry that i fell they can only do so much with it. It just an opinion anyway, i'm not damning the car, I hope it does get to the top by year end.

[Shaddock]

I hope it can, but there is something about the geometry that i fell they can only do so much with it. It just an opinion anyway, i'm not damning the car, I hope it does get to the top by year end.

Aren't they there now looking at the championship tables?

[gibells]

I hope it can, but there is something about the geometry that i fell they can only do so much with it. It just an opinion anyway, i'm not damning the car, I hope it does get to the top by year end.

Aren't they there now looking at the championship tables?

No ways man. The thing is a dog. Slowest out on track. What were they thinking. Nothing like the Wonderful Red Bull or the Beautiful Ferrari.

[imightbewrong]

Unique view of floor here, wish it was better res:

[BreezyRacer]

Notice how early in the chassis the diffuser port starts. It's well into the engine area now. That port is far forward in the chassis to move diffuser DF forward in the chassis.

[astracrazy]

is that new graphics on the bottom of the sidepods?

edit: actually it looks like something sticking out of the sidepod?

[Hangaku]

...
is that new graphics on the bottom of the sidepods?

edit: actually it looks like something sticking out of the sidepod?

Yarp, they'll be holding the barge boards on.

Also, McLaren got a new look garage at this race. Lots of corporate branding going on!

[siskue2005]

Looks like the diffusor is starting from the middle of the sidepods?
am i right guys?

edit: is it legal anyone?
how can they start from the sidepod itself?