The F-duct voted out by the teams

[autogyro]

I dont think the regulations are finalised yet.
The FIA will have to wait for the multi faceted and over complex decision making system of FOTA to come up with suggestions first.
A pointless exercise, as it contains far to many commercial vested interests.

[ISLAMATRON]

The F-duct, aka "dead zone", is to my mind something in the same cathegory as the last years double-diffusers, an anomaly.

Shame on the FIA for not having the guts to stop these rule-benders in their infancy, a driver-manouvered aerodynamic device?
Get outa here!

Are you seriously blaming the FIA for not banning something before it is used?
The FIA does not make the rules, the teams do, if they make the rules loose enough to allow these loophole how can you blame the FIA?

Dont ever ask for more open regs if you are going to know say that the FIA should be banning these things before they are even raced.

[wesley123]

The F-duct, aka "dead zone", is to my mind something in the same cathegory as the last years double-diffusers, an anomaly.

Shame on the FIA for not having the guts to stop these rule-benders in their infancy, a driver-manouvered aerodynamic device?
Get outa here!

Are you seriously blaming the FIA for not banning something before it is used?
The FIA does not make the rules, the teams do, if they make the rules loose enough to allow these loophole how can you blame the FIA?

Dont ever ask for more open regs if you are going to know say that the FIA should be banning these things before they are even raced.

Sure, the teams are complaining ver their own rules, if these are their own rules, why dont they change them? Thats right, because the FIA wrote them, the only thing the team can do is make informal decisions and present them to the FIA as a new rule.

Also IF the teams made the rules, why do the rules still allow the KERS system while the FOTA decided not to use them?

[Paul]

I support this decision, not because the present device is dangerous, but because future evolutions could be. There are still too many unknowns in aerodynamics for fiddling with flows at 350 kph. Although the concept on the whole is another example of F1's engineering brilliance and will surely find its place in history books. =D>

[ISLAMATRON]

Sure, the teams are complaining ver their own rules, if these are their own rules, why dont they change them? Thats right, because the FIA wrote them, the only thing the team can do is make informal decisions and present them to the FIA as a new rule.

Also IF the teams made the rules, why do the rules still allow the KERS system while the FOTA decided not to use them?

The rules are not written by the FIA, they are written by the TWG & the SWG(which is made up by team officials), the reason why the teams cannot change the rules all willy-nilly is because any rules changes within 1 year of the upcoming season must be unanimous BY THE TEAMS... and that rarely ever happens.

Instead of making things up please go read the rules and make an effort to understand thembefore you go on spouting all types of sillyness.

[wesley123]

Sure, the teams are complaining ver their own rules, if these are their own rules, why dont they change them? Thats right, because the FIA wrote them, the only thing the team can do is make informal decisions and present them to the FIA as a new rule.

Also IF the teams made the rules, why do the rules still allow the KERS system while the FOTA decided not to use them?

The rules are not written by the FIA, they are written by the TWG & the SWG(which is made up by team officials), the reason why the teams cannot change the rules all willy-nilly is because any rules changes within 1 year of the upcoming season must be unanimous BY THE TEAMS... and that rarely ever happens.

Instead of making things up please go read the rules and make an effort to understand thembefore you go on spouting all types of sillyness.

ow well, that explains why there were rules in 1995 when those groups didnt even exist

[WhiteBlue]

Sure, the teams are complaining ver their own rules, if these are their own rules, why dont they change them? Thats right, because the FIA wrote them, the only thing the team can do is make informal decisions and present them to the FIA as a new rule.

Also IF the teams made the rules, why do the rules still allow the KERS system while the FOTA decided not to use them?

The rules are not written by the FIA, they are written by the TWG & the SWG(which is made up by team officials), the reason why the teams cannot change the rules all willy-nilly is because any rules changes within 1 year of the upcoming season must be unanimous BY THE TEAMS... and that rarely ever happens.

Instead of making things up please go read the rules and make an effort to understand thembefore you go on spouting all types of sillyness.

ow well, that explains why there were rules in 1995 when those groups didnt even exist

It is a little bit more complicated than that. The rule making is widely determined by the Concord agreement. The common thing to all concord agreements is that the F1 Commission which is mainly composed by the teams makes the rules proposals. In 2009 for some time there was no Concord agreement and in the two years prior to that the F1 commission had not been operated due to failure to agree to a new Concord Agreement.

Sometimes the F1 commission forms working groups and they prepare the proposals for the F1 Commission. Finally when the F1 commission agrees on a rule change the FiA WMSC can approve the change or reject it if it is deemed detrimental to the championship as a whole. The FiA cannot usually write it's own rule changes unless it is based on safety concerns. Many rules have their inherent change conditions that need to be met like tyre rules. They have to be in place before the 1st of January of the year before the season they are to be applied.

The voting in the F1 Commission has to be unanimous for any short term issues to change. But even long term there has to be a majority including the leading teams which used to have veto rights.

When you look at the current set of conditions it is fair to say that the teams pretty much make their own rules with Bernie who also sits in the F1 Commission.

The FiA can to a certain degree interprete the rules and ban something they see covered by an existing rule. They did this with the mass damper based on the interpretation that it was a moving aerodynamic device. They got a lot of bad press for the decision to do that. So in the case of the DDDs and the blown wings they opted not to object and leave it to the teams. It is my impression that they did not see major safety concerns.

It is not surprising that the teams now voted the device out. The smaller teams will not develop it this year and they can save the money to do so next year. In my view it makes more sense to allow movable wings than this fancy stalling devices.

[timbo]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/83502

well, it was an interesting development, but if things really go out of control with driver being an active part of aero package, we could've seen truly awkward things.

PS, mods, please edit thread's title. 901 years is too much to wait

[vall]

I agree with Eddie Jordan. Reduce aero Downforce to 55 percent to follow the FIA intentions when Max Mosley was President.

well, it was the intention of the OWG to reduce the downforce by 40% and so they proposed the 2009 rule changes. Then some guys found a loophole and what MrM did to close it? Nothing, because it served his agenda. DDD even stayed for 2010 (it was the teams that agreed to get rid of DDD from 2011 on).

[vall]

merge it with the tread in the aerodynamics forum

[casper]

100 years to benefit from their development is more than enough.

[Ganxxta]

100 years to benefit from their development is more than enough.

You mean 900 years

[xpensive]

The F-duct, aka "dead zone", is to my mind something in the same cathegory as the last years double-diffusers, an anomaly.

Shame on the FIA for not having the guts to stop these rule-benders in their infancy, a driver-manouvered aerodynamic device?
Get outa here!

Are you seriously blaming the FIA for not banning something before it is used?
The FIA does not make the rules, the teams do, if they make the rules loose enough to allow these loophole how can you blame the FIA?

Dont ever ask for more open regs if you are going to know say that the FIA should be banning these things before they are even raced.

Unless you noticed, the way things work is that whenever a team has a potentially controversial development going on, they can go see Charlie Whiting of the FIA for a clearification of the FIA rules, he has the power to kill it right there and then. Brawn did it last year, McLaren did it this year and both passed.

[casper]

100 years to benefit from their development is more than enough.

You mean 900 years

Considering Bernie's tight fist control of FOM, 900 years o design restriction is too long it would be boring, 100 years is sufficient, then followed by
100 years of driver control by gestures, ipad-like, then
100 years of solar batteries, then
100 years of nuclear fusion, then
100 years of anti-gravity propulsion, then
100 years of warp speed, then
100 years of worm hole power boost, then
100 years of thought control driver system,
100 years of remote driver control but limited to human/Na'vi clones only
after this, the FOM and FIA is dissolved as the earthlings move to Pandora to escape the expanding Sun.

[ringo]

I think the downfocre should stay at these levels, we just need back 1000hp engines so the drivers make more mistakes.

1.5l turbo, 1000hp