Mercedes GP MGP W01

[marcush.]

I really liked them when they were BAR. turned into Honda ...then Brawn was just thrilling and for them to become Benz was really a dreamcircle.
to say they lack ideas perse is not correct ,but I fear this airbox /rolloverstructure is a nice touch but maybe no big advantage ,as is the nose .
It almost looks like the french approach in cars.. look we do things a bit different here ,its not really better but who cares...
Please forgive me at Merc the car looks cool no question .obviously the time does not come from f-ducts or fancy shapes of the bodywork...the key areas for aero development seem to be somewhere else.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

The car does look good!

But I would rather it be closer to the Red Bull than 1.3 seconds

They made a very basic error with the tyres this year. Perhaps they are the only ones to admit it, i dont know. I trust Brawn to get things going again, it cant have been easy in the second half of 2009. Lets Hope Benz can pull off somthing special next year. 2010 is finished for us silver fans in terms of WDC

[vealio]

Well, the time is already running out. There are another two big upgrades planned for Istanbul and Silverstone. There were some rumours a few weeks ago that, if the car is not capable to fight for wins by Silverstone, they´ll shift all their resources to the 2011 projekt.
Norbert Haug seems still confident somehow and he says it´s only matter of time untill the right results (= wins) are possible.
I guess it would take a lot of time and resources to turn that car into a winner, maybe too much.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

1.3 seond gap to Red Bull is too big.

Haug is just playing the media game. He was a journo before he became motorsport boss so, he is well versed in that area.
The light at the end of the tunnel for mercedes is the resource restriction proposals
They are operating within 10% of it.

The other 3 are not.

(speculation suggests 400 staff, some 350 others 280!) any more up to date info on this would be greatly appreciated.

[bugref]

Mercedes is finished in terms of Aerodynamics they are totally owned by Redbull almost all the car. the problem with redbull is their reliability. but overall they are 5 years behind redbull. Hope they can change their concept of their car. And change how they design their car. seems that drooping nose and a bulky cockpit is not working for them to make the story short they should look at the redbull car in all aspect and angle and based their design from it. looking at the Redbull car seems its been the best designed in all F1 cars that has been developed. Good luck Mercedes for your next years car. I dont like that bulky drooping nose thats all, if you dont agree, get a front view of the RB and mercedes car and look at them, and judge which car can take the drag efficiently, that drooping nose of W01 is taking the drag with a lot of mess, while redbull has efficiently divided the drag thats going over the nose and the underbelly of the car. and all the way to a teardrop design cockpit was crafted with a lot of emphasis on handling the airflow that goes through the car.

[Remote_Access]

Mercedes is finished in terms of Aerodynamics they are totally owned by Redbull almost all the car. the problem with redbull is their reliability. but overall they are 5 years behind redbull. Hope they can change their concept of their car. And change how they design their car. seems that drooping nose and a bulky cockpit is not working for them to make the story short they should look at the redbull car in all aspect and angle and based their design from it. looking at the Redbull car seems its been the best designed in all F1 cars that has been developed. Good luck Mercedes for your next years car. I dont like that bulky drooping nose thats all, if you dont agree, get a front view of the RB and mercedes car and look at them, and judge which car can take the drag efficiently, that drooping nose of W01 is taking the drag with a lot of mess, while redbull has efficiently divided the drag thats going over the nose and the underbelly of the car. and all the way to a teardrop design cockpit was crafted with a lot of emphasis on handling the airflow that goes through the car.

With all due respect mate, you're evaluating a car's aerodynamics based on what looks aesthetically pleasing to you, which is a completely inept way of going about it.

If an armchair critic like yourself is so clever as to pick a drooping nose as the cause of merc's problems, do you not think that a team of highly paid aerodynamicists and all their gear would be able to pick the same issue before even designing it? Give them some credit.

Give them further credit for being where they are. 1.3 seconds down on Red Bull, sure, but for most of barcelona they were on par with Ferrari and McLaren, and seem to be holding fort this weekend as well. Don't let your perceptions get out of control.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Remote access,

I think what Bugref is saying is that with the W01 nose design, it appears to create alot of drag if you look at the computer sims earlier in the thread.
In addition there is the fact that Mercedes are lacking in top speed to all the top teams and even Renault. This is not indicative of the engine, but of the drag the car is producing.

It lacks downforce but has a truck load of drag. This is the problem and the nose is part of the issue regardless of how much who is paid or what it is they do.

[Remote_Access]

No worries. I'm not saying their car is top notch, but we should be careful not to come to drastic conclusions based on our uneducated instincts. Like I said, they aren't doing too badly and they are certainly well ahead of other cars with supposedly less-draggy noses (e.g. Williams).

The car, as a whole, is the only we can say is not working perfectly, as it's not leading the field. But to nail it down to the nose is a bit presumptuous. If the nose were an (the) issue it would be easily identified by the team and they would re-design and re-certify it quick-smart. As we know, their focus is on car balance and despite the recent redesign it will still take a few rounds for them to know how to set it up ideally. That's my take on it anyway.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Sure we are the "armchair experts".

But comparing williams low drag nose to that of mercedes is not very fair.
Williams have a Cosworth engine and gearbox for starters and they have gone a totally different direction to Mercedes.

Maybe Williams low drag nose is actually the only good thing on the car?
In isolation you will never know.

The fact remains, Mercedes are looking for downforce points as they are very poor in high speed corners. In addition they have extremely high drag when compared to other Mercedes powered teams and even Renault and Ferrari powered teams.

We go by what we see. Im sure Mercedes see this too, but homologated chassis has put paid to their season IMO due to no changes being allowed

[Remote_Access]

Sure we are the "armchair experts".

But comparing williams low drag nose to that of mercedes is not very fair.
Williams have a Cosworth engine and gearbox for starters and they have gone a totally different direction to Mercedes.

Maybe Williams low drag nose is actually the only good thing on the car?
In isolation you will never know.

The fact remains, Mercedes are looking for downforce points as they are very poor in high speed corners. In addition they have extremely high drag when compared to other Mercedes powered teams and even Renault and Ferrari powered teams.

We go by what we see. Im sure Mercedes see this too, but homologated chassis has put paid to their season IMO due to no changes being allowed

Correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding was that only the monocoque tub was homologated. This would not prevent substantial changes from being made around the car, particularly aero components.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

The tub/nose relationship means any change to the nose would have an effect on the air flow over and around the tub.
Bugref also noted the cockpit bulk is enormous. If you do comparison with the average it is bigger.

My issue is with concept.

Brawn has said as much, saying its not that they cant throw new bits on the car, because they can, but wether they will work.

They tried the high bulky nose, and it appears to not give them any advantage while making them slower in the straights. Its frontal area is bigger than others and the tapered underside isnt as effective as the top 3 teams in containing underside airflow. What is the advantage?

Its not tangible.

A change now would mean hours in the wind tunnel. I say, make the best of an average lot and put your eggs into nexts years W02 basket.
And Brawn needs to work on his concept department, ideas are the lifeblood of making a team quick. if you aint got ideas, its a rocky road...

[Intego]

speculation suggests 400 staff, some 350 others 280!) any more up to date info on this would be greatly appreciated.

http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/form ... 95254.html
(chart at the end of article)

[vealio]

That car is just average - everywhere
It has no particular strength which is really sad to see.

[aral]

I agree with Gilgen. I certainly don't know the context but taking the words at face value I am forced to wonder about your social consideration. Be aware that many people will find that offensive.

I have no idea what "The Wire" is. But i agree with tok-tokie. Irrespective of the so-called context, the words are offensive and totally insensitive to many. What justification is there, to use such offensive words?

[Predator]

What's the problem with his signature? He's simply quoting lines from a fantastic TV show. Can we move on and get back on topic...