Mclaren Mercedes MP4-25

[wesley123]

I thought the f-duct and double diffusers were FIA-banned not FOTA-banned?

From what i read they were FOTA banned. I couldnt find anything about the diffusers being banned by the FIA. i thought the same first lol, but then i ouldnt find anything stating that the FIa had banned them too.

[ringo]

the diffuser changed once again at mclaren? The central part wasnt on it before, only in the start of 2009. Also it sems the diffuser extends alittle bit higher and wider

Expect this diffuser to change multiple times this year, because McLaren have fouled up. The automatic assumption this year from many has been that you would strap the biggest double diffuser on the back of the car which is why many were suprised that Red Bull still had their pull rod rear suspension. However, McLaren's engineers have been shown in no uncertain terms that that assumption is bollocks. It's about managing the airflow into the rear diffuser to make it as efficient as possible. Red Bull have done it, Ferrari have designed with that in mind and Renault have done that. However, it's difficult to see what McLaren can move around at the back of that crowded car to do that. They need to chop the rear off that car and design a new one basically. Mechanically speaking, they clearly had some balance issues with the car in slow corners, and as I'd said many pages back in this thread when I got panned, packaging and balance were going to be the dominant variables.

There are just some McLaren fans who are having a hard time grasping what the shortcomings of this car are that are becoming more apparent as the season progresses. It's not like it's anything new.

Youre kind of quick to criticize though, i don't think half the things you say there are a major issue. Mclaren's wheelbase and ride height may have been the only reason the Renault was so much better on the street circuit. keep in mind Renault also have a double floor looking thing going on on the splitter, so they may be less senstive to ride change.

Mclaren's packaging is tighter than all others except Redbull. What i think they need to do first is to get rid of the asymmetrical engine cover and go with the one used in the launch, but add the cooling gills of the ferrari and the mailbox opening of the redbull.

The rest of it, i think is the lumpy shape of the central body.

[wesley123]

Blaming it on one part is just easy to do.

What i can think of is that the cars CofG is bad, and the car can generate good downforce, but its downforce is very inefficient. I think mclaren can rather discard thi year and head for next year.

Mclarens openings are simply weird, they have incredible downsloping sidepods, but that doesnt matter when the extra cooling openings are placed, then it heads upwards, unifficent if you ask me. Why cant they simply open up the aiurbox, you still mae use of the downsloping sidepods so air to the rear ing isnt lost.

[ringo]

Just curious, why is the CofG bad?

[segedunum]

Mclaren's packaging is tighter than all others except Redbull.

You think that if you want.

[ringo]

Mclaren's packaging is tighter than all others except Redbull.

You think that if you want.

I am talking about compacting parts in a small space. Maybe you are talking about how modular the parts are and how easily the can be repositioned?



One problem is that there are too many air flow direction changes on the top surface. Using the launch engine cover would be better. Throw in some gills and get rid of the lumps that are molded over the packaging.

Flat upward facing Surfaces have less low pressure spots. Redbull have exhibit flat simple surfaces on top the engine cover with as little lumps and bulges as possible.

[wesley123]

I can agree alot with you suggestion, note that this is something the red bull has, the cars shape is so incredibly clean, no sudden bumps anywhere, compare that to hte mclaren for example, it is bumps everywhere

[segedunum]

I am talking about compacting parts in a small space. Maybe you are talking about how modular the parts are and how easily the can be repositioned?

Well all the F1 cars are packaging marvels but yes, this is really what counts ultimately - the fact that you have space to move components and add new ones.

However, just a cursory look at McLaren's rear end shows you they don't have as much free air and empty space in the same space as Red Bull or even Ferrari.

[raymondu999]

True. The first thing I thought after I saw that McLaren engine cover at launch was that it looked like they had put steel up to molten temps, then everything sagged down over the engine.

[PNSD]

I think its far from a case of "using the launch engine cover would be better"

If this was the case, Mclaren would do it.

I find it difficult for anyone to say such things because we as spectators, and thats all we are, can not judge since we do not have tools at our disposal. We can offer opinions, but to state that there are too many airflow direction changes, or this would be better, or that would be better is impossible imo.

As for the car, its clear they are running on the limit on everything, brakes included, but this is what it takes to win.

[PlatinumZealot]

They use the launch engine cover but only on one side. It seems they have some exhaust shroud on the other side. I also think gills would be better.

They also can cut of the top of their diffuser, It's too tall, goes right up to the beam wing blocking up all the air. Mclern needs to work towards a smaller diffuser like Ferrari and redBull. If those guys can produce so much down force with a smaller diffuser, they must be doing something right.

[BreezyRacer]

They use the launch engine cover but only on one side. It seems they have some exhaust shroud on the other side. I also think gills would be better.

They also can cut of the top of their diffuser, It's too tall, goes right up to the beam wing blocking up all the air. Mclern needs to work towards a smaller diffuser like Ferrari and redBull. If those guys can produce so much down force with a smaller diffuser, they must be doing something right.

Many teams are doing well with tall diffusers (diffusers that include the beam wing as part of their roof). Renault have a massive intricate diffuser and it seems to work quite well. McLaren .. not so much.

Red Bull are really the only ones with a low enough tail that they can use the beam wing as a wing. That certainly has to help Red Bull, but again only they can do this, because the tail is so low as to provide usable airflow to the beam wing element for it to work as a wing.

[wesley123]

It just seem the mclaren diffuser cannot use that much of air, not the amount like the renault can. Then you can have an huge diffuser but if it is not fed enough then it doesnt matter at all.

IMO they shold be starting all over again as once again the car proves to be not so well(it actually has a good pace, but there are enough problems with the car). The hole car will get discarded once again with the loss of the DDD and F-Duct, so it isnt worth it making an car that just has problems fast.

[BreezyRacer]

When the season started McLaren had one problem .. Red Bull
Then after Bahrain they had 2 .. Red Bull and Ferrari, and so on till now they have four problems .. Red Bull, Ferrari, Renault, and Mercedes.

Are they prepared to lose to Mercedes and Renault? I don't think we have that answer yet .. I'm sure they were not willing to at the beginning of the year.

[thestig84]

now they have four problems .. Red Bull, Ferrari, Renault, and Mercedes.

I think you have got a bit excited by the one off characteristics of Moncao.

Leaving Barcelona (well know as a track that hints at the cars potential for the whole year) Mclaren were leading both championships and were it not for Hamiltons failure they would have split the red bulls...ahead of Ferrari, Mercedes and well ahead of Renualt.

I think all those teams can and do pose a threat, every team is a problem and Im sure Mclaren would not have overlooked this any time year.

Hamilton has said he is targeted a 1-2 at Silverstone. Brave considering the pace of RedBulls around there. Maybe this shows confidence in some updates coming.