Mercedes GP MGP W01

[Intego]

again...you goz 300head count ,a windchannel,CAD stations ,a windtunnel model everything in place..
so please where is the bottleneck to develop new parts ?

Thought they had a staff of 450 ... (German)
Anyways, when presenting the W01 Zetsche said, that they're aiming for the title (he didn't say which one ), but not necessarily the first year.
In November Haug said that the F1 engagement is aimed to be cost-neutral in the foreseeable future. Also MGP started hte project just because the time was right (resource restriction in 2011, which they already fulfil this year). Why increase staff and costs, when 2010 is simply to install the team and get it work right?
Mercedes wants to tie in with their very successful past of the silver arrows what they always denied in MCL times. Would they back out and hazard their image? Would you?

Another sight: How do media work? If you would say "if there were no restriction, we would back out of the show", then - because they need a handy head line - media would write "XX threatens F1 to back off!"
So first present sources before screaming ... [-(

[marcush.]

I will ask my question again ...be it 300 or 450 headcount...you will have to pay for these people anyways.
All cost cannot be reduced save some material ,wich stacks up quite quickly to considerable amounts ,and working hours of machines...wich is a bit borrowed time ,as you will sooner need new equipment perhaps.

so the only area where you would be able to save is :contract personel and new technology not yet available or consulting /outsourcing of work that cannot be done in house ..
So on which grounds would an operation like BAR/Honda/BRAWN/mercedes not be able to
bang out new parts consistently?

If you got a pair of drivers crashing the car everytime they step in..of course this will create a bottleneck in producing new development parts just because of lack of
spares...
so either they have already switched to 2011 and the concept is so different they can not put the ideas on the current car ,or they deliberately don´t want to show
too much or they simply have concentrated the available recources on the wrong areas ...or no new ideas ...

[Intego]

... so either they have already switched to 2011 and the concept is so different they can not put the ideas on the current car ,or they deliberately don´t want to show too much or they simply have concentrated the available recources on the wrong areas ...or no new ideas ...

That are possible reasons. What we also have to consider is the new team structure. Last year it was Brawn who owned and directed the team. That was an efficient decision making process. Now with new owners they have the problem to reorganize the team and everyone's authority. Daimler is a cumbersome tanker that navigates not as fast as required in Formula 1. Note that Mercedes and McLaren ended their partnership, because Merc wanted some more authority that MCL was not willing to give - now we can see why.

Another good example is the former BMW Sauber Team. BMW left partnership with Williams for the same reason and docked onto Sauber, but were moderatly successful and then frustrated left the whole show. I hope we do not see that with MGP again.

I think Mercedes/Daimler is well advised to take a leaf out of Ferrari's book when they let the triumvirate Todt/Brawn/Schumacher run the show.

Let us just give them some time ...

[marcush.]

the running of the show by Brawn was what was communicated .
Big companies act differently to what is published.
In my view sunday or even saturday the preparations of presentations is on full song to report to the board..this will use up a lot of recources..

[WhiteBlue]

We have some major and very challenging upgrades for the next few races which have been made possible by the commitment and hard work of everyone at the factory over the past weeks.

In Turkey, we will return to our previous suspension system and longer wheelbase car, we have the latest iteration of our 'F-duct' rear wing plus further aerodynamic developments.

It's a long road ahead to achieve the level of competitiveness that we are aiming for but each race is a step along the way and I am confident that we will get there.

It sounds to me like there is a longer program planned beyond Turkey. Could Merc be planning a new front and rear design? If I look at the red bull I can imagine that copying the nose and the sleek rear end would be performance enhancing. But the thought of re-designing the the gearbox, suspension, diffusor and the exhaust routing sounds daunting.

[imightbewrong]

We have some major and very challenging upgrades for the next few races which have been made possible by the commitment and hard work of everyone at the factory over the past weeks.

In Turkey, we will return to our previous suspension system and longer wheelbase car, we have the latest iteration of our 'F-duct' rear wing plus further aerodynamic developments.

It's a long road ahead to achieve the level of competitiveness that we are aiming for but each race is a step along the way and I am confident that we will get there.

It sounds to me like there is a longer program planned beyond Turkey. Could Merc be planning a new front and rear design? If I look at the red bull I can imagine that copying the nose and the sleek rear end would be performance enhancing. But the thought of re-designing the the gearbox, suspension, diffusor and the exhaust routing sounds daunting.

Once again, no new nose-cone allowed.

[WhiteBlue]

It sounds to me like there is a longer program planned beyond Turkey. Could Merc be planning a new front and rear design? If I look at the red bull I can imagine that copying the nose and the sleek rear end would be performance enhancing. But the thought of re-designing the the gearbox, suspension, diffusor and the exhaust routing sounds daunting.

Once again, no new nose-cone allowed.

I believe you are in error there. The tub is homologated and fixed for the season but the nose is just a question of getting past the crash tests IMO.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Interesting development on the F-duct for Mercedes.

It could be automatic!

http://www.f1complete.com/2010-news/17081?task=view

[timbo]

Interesting development on the F-duct for Mercedes.

It could be automatic!

http://www.f1complete.com/2010-news/17081?task=view

Hmm...
Maybe that's when their two sided airbox would be useful. if they can create a system that would stall at a certain speed only if the car goes straight.

However, we've seen that Ferrari could use their F-duct in the corners.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Interesting development on the F-duct for Mercedes.

It could be automatic!

http://www.f1complete.com/2010-news/17081?task=view

Hmm...
Maybe that's when their two sided airbox would be useful. if they can create a system that would stall at a certain speed only if the car goes straight.

However, we've seen that Ferrari could use their F-duct in the corners.

I think you are refering to when Alonso blocked the air coming out the fianl corner in spain. I dont think this indicates it works in corners per se, as thats when you need the wing to give you downforce and not be stalled.
I think alonso did it mid corner to get the aero advantage as soon as is possible.

Regards the W01, Someone mentioned that potentially mercedes will go the sidepod route(I doubt it, given the abrupt change in airflow to get it stalled).
The problem with the car is its high drag. And its been penalised at higher speed tracks because it gives away 6-9Kmh at times to the top 3-4 teams.
So if they can make it work, Mercedes stand to benefit the most due to their aero configuration, which is the least slippery of the top teams.

[imightbewrong]

It sounds to me like there is a longer program planned beyond Turkey. Could Merc be planning a new front and rear design? If I look at the red bull I can imagine that copying the nose and the sleek rear end would be performance enhancing. But the thought of re-designing the the gearbox, suspension, diffusor and the exhaust routing sounds daunting.

Once again, no new nose-cone allowed.

I believe you are in error there. The tub is homologated and fixed for the season but the nose is just a question of getting past the crash tests IMO.

And how will they get passed that if you are not allowed in-season crash tests?
Gascoyne said the nose box was homologated but who knows, he might be wrong...

[WhiteBlue]

Once again, no new nose-cone allowed.

I believe you are in error there. The tub is homologated and fixed for the season but the nose is just a question of getting past the crash tests IMO.

And how will they get passed that if you are not allowed in-season crash tests?
Gascoyne said the nose box was homologated but who knows, he might be wrong...

I believe that Gascoyne meant the tub by that.

28.7 a) One specification of each of the following parts must be homologated prior to the first Event of the Championship season :
- survival cell ;
- principal and second roll structures ;
- front, rear and side impact structures ;
- front wheel ;
- rear wheel.
Once homologated, changes to the these parts will only be permitted for clear safety or reliability reasons following written approval from the FIA.

You can crash as many components as it pleases you or your budget allows.

[marcush.]

hm I read one specification of each part has to be tested and is then homologised for the season...

and front crash structure is listed there as well..

I´d say you cannot change the crashstructure =base cone of the nose.

Question is :have teams accounted for this and put "fake noses" over their crash structure? or that is Redbull crash structure is narrow nose ,but wide nose was just
add on parts to the sides in 2009?

[WhiteBlue]

You are right marcush, the nose cone is also homologated. All you can change is wings. My bad.

Now it is clear that the low nose design was some kind of a bummer.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

So the nose cannot be changed. Is there any conclusive evidence other than the high drag simulations(oh and the insurmountable fact that the Mercs are slow in a straight line despite Mercedes V8 power) That the nose is not working as expected?