Mercedes GP MGP W01

[WhiteBlue]

I think the philosophy today is making the tub and nose as high as possible and clearing the airspace under it as much as possible. That gives you the best chance to pull as much air as possible under the car to feed to the diffusors. Of course I'm not talking about management parts as the plow or splitter that are needed, just the nose and tub.

[ringo]

Very chunky car indeed.
yep. Look how low the tub is to the splitter. Now compare to the redbull, ferrari and Mclaren. The yellow is what it should be like.

The chunky area is an attempt to put the driver forward. I guess shumi's backside is jammed up in that area. Really bad miscalculation and consequences.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Interesting developments are due for turkey.

http://www.autobild.de/artikel/formel-1 ... 83405.html

Google translate will help if you aint german

[BreezyRacer]

I think the philosophy today is making the tub and nose as high as possible and clearing the airspace under it as much as possible. That gives you the best chance to pull as much air as possible under the car to feed to the diffusors. Of course I'm not talking about management parts as the plow or splitter that are needed, just the nose and tub.

Actually you want to use high nose so the underside and splitter area divert airflow out the sides of the car to *minimize* the airflow under the car and make the diffuser create a lower pressure area under the floor.

[vealio]

Doesn´t look good for Istanbul. Red Bull almost untouchable anyway, McLaren has its strenghts in fast turns, Ferrari has a good traction which is important for S1 and S3 there.
Hopefully they stay in front of Renault, something I´m not sure anmore...

[aral]

I think the philosophy today is making the tub and nose as high as possible and clearing the airspace under it as much as possible. That gives you the best chance to pull as much air as possible under the car to feed to the diffusors. Of course I'm not talking about management parts as the plow or splitter that are needed, just the nose and tub.

Actually you want to use high nose so the underside and splitter area divert airflow out the sides of the car to *minimize* the airflow under the car and make the diffuser create a lower pressure area under the floor.

That is possibly why the RedBull uses two fins on the underside of the nose.

The dramatic changes expected for Istanbul seem to comprise of the F-duct and the revisions to the rear wing, to facilitate its operation. These alone will not trasform a car that is inherently poor, although some slight improvement may be expected.

[BreezyRacer]

That is possibly why the RedBull uses two fins on the underside of the nose.

Red bull are actually one of the last to do these fins, first done in China this year. I think I saw them first on last year's Renault but not sure. In any case they just help manage/isolate under nose airflow from the rest of the car. But I would say this area of the car is where a lot of attention has been paid recently to improve diffuser/undertray performance.

[PlatinumZealot]

People always talk of parts aiding diffuser performance. But the diffuser is also a helper part. The ultimate goal of the diffuser and other parts like the front splitter is to help the floor. The floor right between the front splitter and diffuser is where the real action is. All the parts are to help this lowest of pressures area.

[PlatinumZealot]

On the nose; I guess a team can try to design their front crash structure as a separate part form the the nose cone. I think that is how they do it for some of the LeMans cars.

[bugref]

In Istanbul with long wheelbase

"In Turkey we go again with the suspension for the longer wheelbase, to get the new F-shaft, rear wing and more innovations in aerodynamics," is one of the team manager to the list of updates. "It's still a long way to the desired performance, however each race is a step in this direction and I am optimistic that we will achieve our goal."

thats how google translate on the article.
I wonder what kind of new innovations in aerodynamics. I dunno how they spent so much on aerodynamics and did not address their drooping nose. now matter what they tweak on the car. but as long that drooping nose is there, I think they can only improve but only a fraction of seconds I think. but to compare their pace to the redbull seems, a milestone for them. its do or die for them in istanbul if they cant do anything about their pace. I guessed they will have to focus their resources in w02, and addressed a radical design for the nose.

[mike]

guys please......the nose doesnt drive the car.....
mercedes GP people are not stupid...if there is a problem they solve it, the main problem is the front suspension setup its a single keel unlike all the other cars, it creates drag but it doesnt provide the benefit of grip as they expected in the front so they have to move the weight back....and running 2009 wings doesnt help either

[bugref]

sorry for your concern, but the nose and the front wing makes a difference in how to handle the drag and downforce. in a straight line if you cant have a good design in this aspect a number of factor will be affected that would includes downforce and aerodynamics in straight line speed. Sorry they have made lots of radical design by far, if you look at things every race they are the team consistently doing updates but it didnt get there to where they expect it to be. and still a mile off the pace against redbull, ferrari, maclaren, and now Renault is catching up with them.

But I am hoping mercedes will prove me wrong otherwise, they should focus their resources next season. Instanbul will be the do or die for mercedes.

[WhiteBlue]

I think the philosophy today is making the tub and nose as high as possible and clearing the airspace under it as much as possible. That gives you the best chance to pull as much air as possible under the car to feed to the diffusors. Of course I'm not talking about management parts as the plow or splitter that are needed, just the nose and tub.

Actually you want to use high nose so the underside and splitter area divert airflow out the sides of the car to *minimize* the airflow under the car and make the diffuser create a lower pressure area under the floor.

Yes, that makes more sense in terms of description. But the goal is still high air flow flow in the nose section even if you want to divert it away later. I wonder how that drooping nose was supposed to achieve that. The straighter high noses seem to be a simple solution for the task.

[WhiteBlue]

On the nose; I guess a team can try to design their front crash structure as a separate part form the the nose cone. I think that is how they do it for some of the LeMans cars.

The nose is the front crash structure. The only part they can touch is the wing and the wing struts.

[BreezyRacer]

I think the philosophy today is making the tub and nose as high as possible and clearing the airspace under it as much as possible. That gives you the best chance to pull as much air as possible under the car to feed to the diffusors. Of course I'm not talking about management parts as the plow or splitter that are needed, just the nose and tub.

Actually you want to use high nose so the underside and splitter area divert airflow out the sides of the car to *minimize* the airflow under the car and make the diffuser create a lower pressure area under the floor.

Yes, that makes more sense in terms of description. But the goal is still high air flow flow in the nose section even if you want to divert it away later. I wonder how that drooping nose was supposed to achieve that. The straighter high noses seem to be a simple solution for the task.

I imagine that testing on the nose was related only to the nose area, thus they may have found a little more front downforce with that layout and since that's what they were looking for they settled on that design.

You have to now what you want when it comes to design and testing so if you're not looking for improved airflow at the splitter/under nose area you won't find it, and thus down the wrong path we go .. it wouldn't surprise me to see them revert towards a design like last year's Brawn cow catcher splitter. It probably wasn't drag efficient but it did seem to work well with this nose design.