COTA Austin - construction and infrastructure

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What do you think of the prospect of a USGP 2012 at Austin Texas

Good thinking. Place has good infra structure and nice climate in winter.
126
47%
Not good as it has no motor sport tradition in the US.
23
9%
I will wait to see how it will shape up.
97
36%
I don't care.
23
9%
 
Total votes: 269

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WhiteBlue
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Re: US GP 2012 - Austin Texas

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xpensive wrote:Are all the classic tracks out of the question?
There is no point in trying to solve Bernie's problems. He will do it without our help. Austin will happen, unless they run into trouble with the track.
Formula One's fundamental ethos is about success coming to those with the most ingenious engineering and best .............................. organization, not to those with the biggest budget. (Dave Richards)

xpensive
xpensive
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Re: US GP 2012 - Austin Texas

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WhiteBlue wrote:
xpensive wrote:Are all the classic tracks out of the question?
There is no point in trying to solve Bernie's problems. He will do it without our help. Austin will happen, unless they run into trouble with the track.
I always thought there was a racer somewhere in MrE's heart, but you might be right on the money with this one WB.

But could you just imagine F1 cars around Elkhart Lake, Laguna Seca or Road Atlanta? My God, I could die and go to heaven,
right there and then.
"I spent most of my money on wine and women...I wasted the rest"

donskar
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Re: US GP 2012 - Austin Texas

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xpensive wrote:Any which way you slice it, there has to be a USGP, problem is to find a venue of course. Phoenix and Dallas didn't work, we know that. Are all the classic tracks out of the question?
Yes. Some are poorly located; all would require the investment of many, many millions.

I miss The Glen, Mid-Ohio, Elkhart Lake, Mosport, but the only place for nostalgia racing in the USA is drag racing.
Enzo Ferrari was a great man. But he was not a good man. -- Phil Hill

bill shoe
bill shoe
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Re: US GP 2012 - Austin Texas

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Rob01 wrote:Texas Motor Speedway holds 191K. Plus the infield. In addition Eddie G said they made 22Mil off the first Nascar race held at TMS.
Good correction, thanks.

I think this still suggests optimism on the part of the politicians and promoter. According to your numbers the NASCAR event made ~$100 per person in its first year. Texas is hardcore NASCAR country in a way that vastly exceeds F1 popularity. The F1 race (assuming 100,000 spectators per year) would have to make $100-200 per person for each of 10 years to cover a track cost of $100 to 200 million with 0% interest. Indy, even before the Michelin debacle, was not going to average 100,000 spectators over the 10-year contract.

Here's another way to look at it. Indy did not continue its F1 contract. At that time Indy's F1 track and modifications were already done, so they were a sunk cost that could be ignored when considering whether or not to continue. If Indy sold enough tickets and beer to pay Bernie's sanction fee then the race would have continued. They were consistently unable to do this.

I feel safe saying the government will have to help with the sanction fee AND guarantee the track cost or it will not happen. OK, I've pissed enough in this thread, I'll go elsewhere for a while. :x

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WhiteBlue
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Re: US GP 2012 - Austin Texas

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The investment would probably be 150 mil $ as I have already shown. At 100,000 visitors with an average ticket price of 150$ there would be GP revenues of 15 mil$/a.

I would be fairly confident that an F1 track could pull in another 7 mil by hosting MotoGP or sports car races. So lets assume initial total revenues of 22 mil $. The value of the circuit isn't supposed to deteriorate, so you just have to earn the return on the investment. I have no idea of the cost of running such a circuit but European venues manage to earn their running cost before the GP. So they may have 10-15% annual return. That isn't spectacular but Bernie may be inclined to give them a big chunk of this as a silent share holder to get them going. While the public may not pay towards the track there may be loans available at low rates.
Formula One's fundamental ethos is about success coming to those with the most ingenious engineering and best .............................. organization, not to those with the biggest budget. (Dave Richards)

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ISLAMATRON
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Re: US GP 2012 - Austin Texas

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xpensive wrote:What are you guys talking about anyway, Austin is way south of the Mason-Dixon line? As if anyone of guys would have any idea of what that means... :lol:
I know exactly what that means, so if I go there I'll definatly be packing heat.

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WhiteBlue
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Re: US GP 2012 - Austin Texas

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http://adamcooperf1.com/2010/05/26/tilk ... purchased/?
Tilke designing Austin track, site already purchased

Veteran circuit designer Herrman Tilke will be responsible for the Austin F1 track, promoter Tavo Hellmund has confirmed to this writer. Hellmund also says the project is also much further along than has been assumed.

“This has been long in the works,” he told this blog. “Everything is in place.”

Although the former racer told local media yesterday that three possible venues were still under consideration, that suggestion was apparently a smokescreen.

While several alternatives were under consideration, one site was settled on some time ago, and the land – over 800 acres – has already been purchased. Not only that but initial permissions for amenities such as water and waste, which are usually time consuming affairs, have already been granted.

Although Hellmund has yet to divulge details, he confirmed that the site is to the east of the city, a few miles from the airport. It is said to be in hilly countryside that has provided Tilke with a good starting point for a design.

The German has been asked to create a fast circuit with challenging corners that resemble those of classis established circuits such as Silverstone, Hockenheim and Spa.

Tilke first sent a representative of his company to Austin around two years ago, and has made personal many visits since. He is currently looking for office space in the city in which to base the project.

Hellmund is adamant that Austin is an ideal location: “Other than New York or LA, which already have 10m people, where are you going to find a place that within 150-mile radius you have three of the top 10 largest markets in the United States? That is the wonderful thing. Our position between Canada and the United States, North, South and Central America, is unbelievable.

“You take that into account, you take into account the draw that Austin is, it’s the state capital, it’s in the hill country, it’s got a huge, huge vibe and tag of being the coolest place.”

As reported previously, the race is set to benefit from the ‘Texas Major Events Trust Fund,’ which is intended to reimburse cities for costs they face when hosting big sporting events.

However, that relates only to specific events and does not have an impact on the cost of building the facility, which budgeted at $200m. The track build is being financed by private investors.

One of the key elements that has helped to generate funding is that aside from F1, the circuit will be used to help develop alternative fuels.

Tavo has known Bernie Ecclestone since he was a teenager. His father was involved in promoting Indycar and TransAm races in Mexico City, and also helped to bring F1 back to the country in 1988. Hellmund Sr was also involved in the 1986 soccer World Cup and in organising music events.
Image

The above pic shows how disused land is available north east of the airport with direct interstate connection. If Hellmund is an old pal of Bernie the gnome will have probably seen to it that he got to know the right people (CVC). :wink:

Bernie has his back to the wall about the US GP and he might have had to close a much worse deal where the tax payer will not contribute to his fees if this opportunity had been missed.

This time Tilke gets a clear spec to build a fast circuit. I'm sure he can do that and keep the dead line.
Formula One's fundamental ethos is about success coming to those with the most ingenious engineering and best .............................. organization, not to those with the biggest budget. (Dave Richards)

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flynfrog
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Re: US GP 2012 - Austin Texas

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ISLAMATRON wrote:
xpensive wrote:What are you guys talking about anyway, Austin is way south of the Mason-Dixon line? As if anyone of guys would have any idea of what that means... :lol:
I know exactly what that means, so if I go there I'll definatly be packing heat.
so will every one else its Texas

Austin is a great city. I spent some time there a few years ago.

mx_tifoso
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Re: US GP 2012 - Austin Texas

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I just might go if this becomes a reality, I'm not holding my breath though.

Flynfrog and ISLAMATRON, want to start working on F1T and "Alonso RULZ" banners? :lol:
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flynfrog
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Re: US GP 2012 - Austin Texas

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mx_tifosi wrote:I just might go if this becomes a reality, I'm not holding my breath though.

Flynfrog and ISLAMATRON, want to start working on F1T and "Alonso RULZ" banners? :lol:
ok but if I have to go with you two im wearing this. Image :lol:

I will probably go if we want to have a F1TUS meet down there.

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WhiteBlue
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Re: US GP 2012 - Austin Texas

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Motorsport.com wrote:Austin promoter Tavo Hellmund, reportedly a friend of Ecclestone's for decades, said he is not worried about the tight schedule for 2012.

"If it (the date) slides back, it slides back," he said.

Although mainly funded privately, the project will also enjoy some state input, with a letter to Ecclestone signed by Texas governor Rick Perry pledging $25 million per year from the state's Mayor Event Trust Fund.
So Bernie grabbed some 250 mil$ tax payer's money by this deal. He loves this kind of stunts. I doubt that any other venue would have made him that money. If he now finds a way to get Hellmund the finance he basically gets the facility for free. All the ticket money is available for his fees. This not a dumb way to get rid of the burden of having a USGP. :lol:
Formula One's fundamental ethos is about success coming to those with the most ingenious engineering and best .............................. organization, not to those with the biggest budget. (Dave Richards)

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ecapox
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Re: US GP 2012 - Austin Texas

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The best part of your article quote, Whiteblue, is this...

"It is said to be in hilly countryside that has provided Tilke with a good starting point for a design"

All Tilke's latest tracks have been flat. If this one throws in some elevation changes, and maybe a SPA-like turn that we all know and love (pre 2007) i'd be very excited.

From what i have been reading it seems like this deal has been going on behind the scenes for a while, all hush hush. Sure, no construction has started, but they have the land, permits, and utilities all ready to go.

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WhiteBlue
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Re: US GP 2012 - Austin Texas

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[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GoOYpYhd03w[/youtube]

Go to 5:30 to watch an explanation how they used the contour liners to make optimum use of the elevation changes.

Image

Istanbul Park shows that Tilke can deliver the goods when the terrain and the specification is right. The turkish track has about 50% of the elevation changes that you get at Spa but it makes very good use of it. If you have a flat piece of desert reclaimed from a swamp like Yas Marina there isn not much you can do.
Formula One's fundamental ethos is about success coming to those with the most ingenious engineering and best .............................. organization, not to those with the biggest budget. (Dave Richards)

donskar
donskar
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Re: US GP 2012 - Austin Texas

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flynfrog wrote:
ISLAMATRON wrote:
xpensive wrote:What are you guys talking about anyway, Austin is way south of the Mason-Dixon line? As if anyone of guys would have any idea of what that means... :lol:
I know exactly what that means, so if I go there I'll definatly be packing heat.
so will every one else its Texas
Just in case anyone takes the two posts above seriously . . . BS.

I've lived in Texas about 14 years (who's counting?). My job puts me in contact with a broad range of Texans every day. Other than police/security personnel, I have NEVER met a Texan carrying a gun. F1bigotry.net?
Enzo Ferrari was a great man. But he was not a good man. -- Phil Hill

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Pandamasque
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Re: US GP 2012 - Austin Texas

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Breaking news: The Tilke-designed circuit map has leaked!

Image

El Passo hairpin and the Houston chicane will definitely be the places for overtaking.