Lewis Hamilton has won the Turkish Grand Prix in Istanbul after closely following the Red Bulls until they knocked each other out. Jenson Button was second, while Mark Webber managed to finish third after an extra stop. Sebastian Vettel didn't make it to the finish.
andrew wrote:Try attacking the post, not the poster. Attacks on other posters are pathetic and childish.
When I watch it, I see Webber squeezing Vettel. Funny that Horner also says that Webber did not give Vettel enough space.
For me this is 100% Webbers fault and I am not changing my opinion for all the tea in China. [-(
Nice Pics Shaddock, there was tons of room for Vettel, he should have not tried to move right, Webber is not some flighty back marker he can scare into submission!!Shaddock wrote:
As the images and video show, SV drifts across the the track towards MW. Webbers line does not alter from the crest on the straight until the impact.
Should Webber have moved over is a different question. Vettel is clearly not being squeezed, he has more space in picture 4 (just before impact) than when he started the overtake.
This is Coming from Hamilton who is known for his aggressive overtaking moves and I think illustrates how stupid Vettel was for turning right on Mark!Pup wrote:Vettel has developed a fondness for this kind of slashing maneuver. Here's what Hamilton said about the incident earlier in the race...
Eddie: Were you at all surprised with the move Vettel pulled on you?
Lewis: I was very very surprised. I mean, I think we... travelling at those kinds of speeds you have to be sensible and you probably heard it on the radio - I came and said there was a dangerous move because.... I was trying to go down the outside of him and as I was alongside he erratically turned towards me, and considering that the next corner is a left hander, there is no reason to turn right, and I guess he tried to do the same... he did the exact same thing with Mark, and unfortunately took himself out. But I think it was a little bit unfortunate for Mark as he drove a great race - he's done great for the last few races and is performing well, qualified poll. I'm glad he was able to finish.
So what? Just because someone disagrees with your views does not make them wrong. I don't think I am wrong on this and have yet to see anything to convince me otherwise.Giblet wrote:andrew wrote:Try attacking the post, not the poster. Attacks on other posters are pathetic and childish.
When I watch it, I see Webber squeezing Vettel. Funny that Horner also says that Webber did not give Vettel enough space.
For me this is 100% Webbers fault and I am not changing my opinion for all the tea in China. [-(
100% is a little bit silly, honestly, but you've been completely wrong on things before.
Those images say it all, Webber actually turned ever so slightly right giving Vettel more room not less, Vettel then tries to turn right (from where he was on the white line) despite not being clear of Webber!WhiteBlue wrote:Webber initially went completely to the left to defend there and Vettel only decided to dive down the inside when Webber decided to move from the left side back to the racing line. The thing that is difficult to decide from the two in car shots is the line Webber took after he moved from the left back towards the racing line. As soon as he realized Vettel took the inside he did not complete his move towards the right and it actually looks like he even came back left to make it very tight for Vettel who was taking to the white line to squeeze through. I will upload some pics to study that.andartop wrote:Well, WB, you see Webber did actually leave plenty of room to begin with: all Vettel had to do was dive on the outside rather than try to squeeze on the (dirty and marginally narrow) inside. Webber changed his line once, got the middle-but-slightly-to-the-left line and stayed there, as he had every right to do. If Button could make this work from the outside on LH why shouldn't Vettel?
True, but someone being wrong does make them wrong.andrew wrote:Just because someone disagrees with your views does not make them wrong.
By Adam Hay-Nicholls on May 30, 2010 10:14 PM
Who's fault was the clash of the Red Bulls? Well I disagree with Helmut Marko on this one, for I feel Mark Webber gave Sebastian Vettel enough space - not a lot, but enough - and Vettel just drifted wide too early. Seb can't expect Mark to just move over. They're both fighting for this championship, and it's basic racing tactics that Mark will want to leave Seb on the dirty side, and with the tightest possible turn-in angle.
Fans don't want to see team orders, but RBR would have done better to "control" their drivers. That means either tell Vettel to turn the engine down when Mark was instructed to, or tell Mark "Seb's got a run on you - give him space."
Red Bull now stand accused of favouring Vettel, though as it is there's little evidence of that. It's no secret that Vettel is treated as a messiah by Fuschl (Red Bull's Austrian HQ), and Marko's controversial opinions do little to dismiss that, but I see no sign there's anything other than equality at Milton Keynes, despite Mark's cryptic comment that we journalists need to "dig a little deeper."
The crash was actually rather fortuitous for Mark. Okay, he was on course to win - at least until Vettel attacked - but instead of pulling out a seven point lead over Vettel, (assuming, of course, Webber had led the pair across the line to victory), he now enjoys a 15 point lead over his team mate and is still leading overall by five points (Button is now second).
At the end of the year, Turkey could result in Webber winning the title. A colleague did joke with me that Webber is like The Black Knight in Monty Python's Holy Grail. "But I've had your wing off..." "It's just a flesh wound". Certainly, coming back from a contact like that to collect third place shows a never-say-die attitude.
This has really shaken up RBR, who were looking unbeatable, and it could make them fragile. This will be very interesting. If inner-team rivalry can destroy old hands like McLaren (see 2007) just think what it could do to a team that's just five seasons old. Christian Horner will need to summon all of his management skills to navigate these choppy waters. Despite what he says about it all being resolved before Canada, I think Turkey will play on both drivers' minds for as long as they're under the same roof.
I don't think I am wrong so will not change my opinion as there is no reason to as far as I am concerned.D'Leh wrote:True, but someone being wrong does make them wrong.andrew wrote:Just because someone disagrees with your views does not make them wrong.
Vettel wasn't ahead but alongside. That's why he crashed into Webber when he moved to the right as if he was alone on the track. Just because you don't agree doesn't mean you're right.
You can clearly see in this shot Mark left him just enuf tarmac to brake on:nacho wrote:Perhaps Vettel tried to push to the right because he didn't want to break possible on the white line. As a racing situation I think Vettel should have not moved to the right but then again as a team mate Webber could have given him a bit more space, Vettel must have thought he's bagged it. We are not talking about a wild chop here but a car moving a tyre width or two from the white line.
It's amazing how many own goals Red Bull are scoring, if it isn't the car breaking its pit crew, stragey or the drivers messing it.
