Is Vettel overrated? What do you think

[Fil]

Not agreeing with Andrew concerning Schumacher, but Senna sure paved the way to Schumi's bully behaviour.

Agreed.

What Senna introduced to F1 in driver aggression, Schumacher progressed to the next level. Vettel is continuing both great men's legacies.

Ruthlessness is necessary for greatness in this sport. So i don't hold that against Seb. In fact, i admire him for having that streak in him.

I still don't like him though!

[Raptor22]

the abrupt right steering lock is not Vettel turning into Webber, it is Vettel's steering input AFTER they touched.
When two cars touch the car to the right wants to bounce toward the left, the drivers instinctive reaction is right steering lock. Anyon who has raced go-karts or any open wheeler will know this.
It is clear that Vettel is past and he is edging closer to the racing line. Webber doesnot give him room and fails to keep clear. It is Webbers duty to keep clear of the car ahead.

Blame 100% Webber. By straight lining the straight he effectively treid to force Vettel onto the dirty side of the track. A dumb move because Vettel would still be alongside him going into the corner and they would both have gone off.

Webber is a dingo.

[Pandamasque]

Ruthlessness is necessary for greatness in this sport. So i don't hold that against Seb. In fact, i admire him for having that streak in him.

First of all ruthlessness is not necessary for greatness. Secondly yesterday that was nothing bud poor awareness and sloppy driving, not ruthlessness (unless he wanted a DNF).

@ Raptor22, come on. By the time they touched Seb was at least 1m from his initial position. He kept his wheel slightly to the right for about a second before they collided. That was 1 second too much. Webber had every right to go straight. Nobody forced Vettel to squeeze into that 2m corridor between Webber's car and the edge of the track. He chose do go there.

Btw, that doesn't mean Vettel is overrated. He's not known to be perfect and very sensible in using his opportunities. He's known to be extremely talented.

[lebesset]

in the first interview after the event vettel said

I lost control of the car

and looking at the clip from panda that looks exactly right to me

webber left him enough room , then went straight , why should he move over , up to vettel to get it done , but he couldn't

now vettel says it is mark's fault

team politics caused this , their statements make zero sense ; they could have told both drivers to turn down engines at the same time and had a 1/2 , hamilton would have been pressuring one of them come what may ; but no , they want vettel to win

and ruthless ? no great champion is ruthless , they don't need to be , they have the skill
I shall never forget peter collins , who could have been world champion , giving up his car to fangio so fangio could be world champion ; when asked why he did that he said ...because he deserved it ....you don't do that if someone is ruthless
jimmy clark didn't have a ruthless bone in his body

but these were GREAT champions

[Pandamasque]

I lost control of the car

and looking at the clip from panda that looks exactly right to me

I think that means he didn't understand he tripped over Webber and thought he was clear of him. Why would anyone lose an F1 car at nearly top speed going tin the straight line?

[Raptor22]

Ruthlessness is necessary for greatness in this sport. So i don't hold that against Seb. In fact, i admire him for having that streak in him.

First of all ruthlessness is not necessary for greatness. Secondly yesterday that was nothing bud poor awareness and sloppy driving, not ruthlessness (unless he wanted a DNF).

@ Raptor22, come on. By the time they touched Seb was at least 1m from his initial position. He kept his wheel slightly to the right for about a second before they collided. That was 1 second too much. Webber had every right to go straight. Nobody forced Vettel to squeeze into that 2m corridor between Webber's car and the edge of the track. He chose do go there.

Btw, that doesn't mean Vettel is overrated. He's not known to be perfect and very sensible in using his opportunities. He's known to be extremely talented.

So what if he was 1m from his original position. He had the inside, he was ahead. It was HIS corner. Webber had to back off. He didn't and maintained the squeeze on his TEAMMATE which was a bonehead move since if it had continued both could have been out of the race. Webber is very lucky it worked out for him but it is 100% his fault.

Seb said he lost control. Thsats usually what happens when an open wheeler touches another open wheeler. Vettel made a great move and was rewarded by being shafted by his teammate.
Webbers tactics are as boneheaded as that Montoya idiot from a few seasons back. Ron Dennis had balls, he fired that twit. Horner should do the same, fire Webber.

If Webber concede the corner, the he would have had 2nd, instread he booted his teammate out of the race and got demoted to 3rd.

If Red Bull loses both championships again, I don;t think Webber will find himself in the other RB7 next year. Deservedly so. i think a few good races has gone to his untalented head.

[marcush.]

in the sequence above you can clearly see Vettels left frontwheel going up the front right one going down dramatically just before the car is turning right ...so I´d say the cars made contact the right rear got unloaded and the car turned right.

Obviously Vettel was trying to edge to the right ,Webber ignoring this.

But i would want to add 1 one more thing:in Lap 41 of 58 they need to turn down the engine to make the distance???? Have they borrowed their fuel tanks from Virgin?

[jshaw]

Whats this obsession with overrated and talent? To win an F1 event you have to have talent for christ's sake, regardless of the car, yet there is an obsession with beating down every successful driver with an 'overrated' or 'untalented' stick.

A driver has a run of success and rather than being aplauded like they should be, instead there is a backlash, it starts when idiots get the idea that they should hold the opposite opinion of a driver to everyone else just for the sake of being different and individual, soon everybody is at it and then the idiots all hold the same opinion anyway, and it becomes the fashion to denounce every --- driver without thinking.

The trouble with F1 becoming more popular is that it has drawn in a vast quantity of idiots and armchair racing drivers who pass themselves off as 'fans', the majority of you know sod all about what it takes to win at the top level so save your stupid judgements.

None of the drivers on the F1 grid got where they are without talent, especially in the case of Webber, being one of the drivers who worked his way up the traditional way instead of being groomed by an F1 team on a fast track from Karting. Sometimes things and people are highly rated because they are actually good!

Discussion would be so much easier if stupid people aren't allowed opinions. I'm sick to the back teeth of the stupid attitudes an opinions that the majority of F1 'fans' hold these days. Too much of an obsession with underdogs.

You all need to stop talking out of your uninformed arses.

[Raptor22]

ooops I think someone is upset

[Pandamasque]

He had the inside, he was ahead. It was HIS corner. Webber had to back off.

If Vettel was ahead how the hell did he drive into Webber's SIDE? We clearly didn't watch the same race.

[raymondu999]

I don't think it's arguable that Vettel's nose was ahead of Webbers, but nobody so far has claimed that Vettel's rear wing was already ahead of Webber's nose I don't think

[Pandamasque]

I don't think it's arguable that Vettel's nose was ahead of Webbers, but nobody so far has claimed that Vettel's rear wing was already ahead of Webber's nose I don't think

Does that mean that whenever your nose is in front you have the track width to yourself?

[lebesset]

if he didn't know he was only half way past webber then he isn't fit to be driving an F1 car , that would be a massive error and potentially lethal

there are only 2 possible explanations in my view

he lost control or he thought he could intimidate mark into going off his line

[raymondu999]

I don't think it's arguable that Vettel's nose was ahead of Webbers, but nobody so far has claimed that Vettel's rear wing was already ahead of Webber's nose I don't think

Does that mean that whenever your nose is in front you have the track width to yourself?

I didn't say that. I just said that statement to help clarify some other drivers' comments

EDIT: Sorry, was watching the replays and typed drivers by mistake. I meant posters = Can we get back on topic of the guy's talent by the way? Rather than talking of the Turkey thing?

I'd love to see him partner Rob Smedley by the way

[smellybeard]

Whatever about the qualities of the driver in question, the aftermath of the incident shows how much the Red Bull management still has to learn about running a team. As long as they have to give foolish 'fuel setting' excuses you'll know they're still lemonade kids.