McLaren have chosen some interesting design routes on their new competitor. In addition to our own technical analysis, McLaren's Tim Goss and Paddy Lowe explain why some decisions have been made in light of the regulation changes.
segedunum wrote:Errrr, I do. There's no way anyone is gaining that kind of time every race. It's a few tenths every few races - at best.thestig84 wrote:Sorry 0.2-3 was what Whitmarsh claimed. I see no reason to not believe it http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/84018
Total boll***s mate.segedunum wrote: They're still a long way from finding the downforce that they need. They've managed to mitigate it on tracks with some straights but they can't stop Red Bull suddenly winning three or four races in a row. As soon as Red Bull get a few kph from their own F-duct, and they're not looking for it to be spectacular, there's little else McLaren can really do.
Did you forget that every other team are also making progress? Your statement only makes sense if you are trying to let us believe that RedBull aren't doing sosegedunum wrote:Total bollocks. If that was the case they would have overtaken Red Bull by now and they'd be gaining several seconds per season.
Renault improves their car by 0.7s in 6 races. McLaren is a little bit more agressive than Renault. 1.0s improvement maybe...Q:
How much has the R30 improved since the first race in Bahrain?
James Alllison:
With the latest developments we brought to the car for the Monaco weekend, by around three quarters of a second per lap.
As you get closer to the front it gets ever harder to gain speed and time - the old 80/20 rule. That makes McLaren's confident proclamation that because they allegedly gained over two seconds during the course of last season then they can overhaul the deficit this season bollocks, because they're closer to the front now. Their car was so bad at the start of last season that they could easily make a lot of quick gains.Hangaku wrote:Did you forget that every other team are also making progress? Your statement only makes sense if you are trying to let us believe that RedBull aren't doing so
Uh, huh.Also, grow up.McLaren fanboi.
I think when whitmarsh speaks about tenths per lap, he is talking about whatever track they use to run their simulations on. Or it could even be an average for the gains over a range of tracks in the sim.segedunum wrote:It's a FACT - in capitals no less. How can one argue with that?Poleman wrote:You have every right not to believe it but the history of the 7 races so far shows that McLaren are chopping some tenths in EVERY race.Thats a FACT.Even 0.1-0.2 doesnt really matter its still an improvement.
I'm afraid we'll need more than Martin Whitmarsh's confident proclamations. Unfortunately, these alleged gains turn out to be total crap because when you say 0.3 seconds what track is that based on? A 1 second gap at one circuit will be 0.5 at another, and it gets more complicated when you compare McLaren's times to their rivals because they gain speed and lap time relative via different methods. For example, in Turkey they didn't have the downforce or stability through turn 8 and their car was rather shockingly unstable under braking but they made up for that deficit. Try translating that to a different circuit.
If they're basing their predictions on that kind of logic then it's small wonder that Monaco came as a bit of a shock and Martin Whitmarsh refused to tell anyone how much lap time they'd gained there.
Does anyone know what this guy is even arguing anymore? Other than he hates Mclaren and loves Red Bull, is he actually making any point?segedunum wrote:It's a FACT - in capitals no less. How can one argue with that?Poleman wrote:You have every right not to believe it but the history of the 7 races so far shows that McLaren are chopping some tenths in EVERY race.Thats a FACT.Even 0.1-0.2 doesnt really matter its still an improvement.
I'm afraid we'll need more than Martin Whitmarsh's confident proclamations. Unfortunately, these alleged gains turn out to be total crap because when you say 0.3 seconds what track is that based on? A 1 second gap at one circuit will be 0.5 at another, and it gets more complicated when you compare McLaren's times to their rivals because they gain speed and lap time relative via different methods. For example, in Turkey they didn't have the downforce or stability through turn 8 and their car was rather shockingly unstable under braking but they made up for that deficit. Try translating that to a different circuit.
If they're basing their predictions on that kind of logic then it's small wonder that Monaco came as a bit of a shock and Martin Whitmarsh refused to tell anyone how much lap time they'd gained there.
They are still leading the WDC Remote...For how long thats another story.For the rest of your post...i cant agree more =D> Glad to hear from someone else the words i wanna speak.Remote_Access wrote:Does anyone know what this guy is even arguing anymore? Other than he hates Mclaren and loves Red Bull, is he actually making any point?segedunum wrote:It's a FACT - in capitals no less. How can one argue with that?Poleman wrote:You have every right not to believe it but the history of the 7 races so far shows that McLaren are chopping some tenths in EVERY race.Thats a FACT.Even 0.1-0.2 doesnt really matter its still an improvement.
I'm afraid we'll need more than Martin Whitmarsh's confident proclamations. Unfortunately, these alleged gains turn out to be total crap because when you say 0.3 seconds what track is that based on? A 1 second gap at one circuit will be 0.5 at another, and it gets more complicated when you compare McLaren's times to their rivals because they gain speed and lap time relative via different methods. For example, in Turkey they didn't have the downforce or stability through turn 8 and their car was rather shockingly unstable under braking but they made up for that deficit. Try translating that to a different circuit.
If they're basing their predictions on that kind of logic then it's small wonder that Monaco came as a bit of a shock and Martin Whitmarsh refused to tell anyone how much lap time they'd gained there.
Seg, so far you have failed to make any of your predictions stick. You said Red Bull would run away this year - they haven't. You said Mclaren had no development in their car - they do. Now we face a clear situation where Mclaren is getting faster and Red Bull is facing significant internal turmoil which could derail its campaign.
Red Bull should be in an almost unbeatable position from the first third of this season and they are now no longer leading either championship. Martin Whitmarsh has therefore every reason to make confident proclamations - you do not. And for you to criticise him for his 'logic' is completely hypocritical in my view.
Again and again this quote is being either misread or misunderstood.mith wrote:I somehow can't believe that McLaren is getting faster every race by around 0.2s. 19*0.2s=3.8s. Given, they have improved by around 2s frantically developing their car last year, I can't imagine their development pace to be almost twice as fast now.
0.2-0.3 seconds improvement per race, for the MP4-25. This is irrespective to any other car on the track, just in terms of the progression of the MP4-25. To spell it out even clearer, it is as if they were to say adding a newly developed front wing will provide the car with an improvement on their own lap time of 0.2 seconds. Red Bull may bring 0.2 seconds of improvement to a race, and thus McLarens development would not do anything but keep them at par to where they were prior.We speak to everyone in the company quite regularly and, if you are making 0.2-0.3 seconds improvement per race, although it doesn't sound enough, over four races that is one second.
"Red Bull won't stand still. They are a good organisation and we just have to make sure that we are improving at a faster rate than them.
I think you're the one, who misunderstood my statement. I never compared McLaren to any other car and it's obvious that every other team is developing as well. I was talking about gains over previous iterations of MP4/25. If they was faster of around 4 seconds over course of the season, we would see much better qualifying times on the same track year by year. I didn't saw anyone qualifying 4 second faster than last year's record.MikeFromCanada wrote:Again and again this quote is being either misread or misunderstood.mith wrote:I somehow can't believe that McLaren is getting faster every race by around 0.2s. 19*0.2s=3.8s. Given, they have improved by around 2s frantically developing their car last year, I can't imagine their development pace to be almost twice as fast now.
To quote Whitmarsh, again:
0.2-0.3 seconds improvement per race, for the MP4-25. This is irrespective to any other car on the track, just in terms of the progression of the MP4-25. To spell it out even clearer, it is as if they were to say adding a newly developed front wing will provide the car with an improvement on their own lap time of 0.2 seconds. Red Bull may bring 0.2 seconds of improvement to a race, and thus McLarens development would not do anything but keep them at par to where they were prior.We speak to everyone in the company quite regularly and, if you are making 0.2-0.3 seconds improvement per race, although it doesn't sound enough, over four races that is one second.
"Red Bull won't stand still. They are a good organisation and we just have to make sure that we are improving at a faster rate than them.
Your argument of stating that McLaren would then have an overall improvement advantage of 3.8 seconds (compared to 2.5 last year) is RESPECTIVE to other cars on the track. Sure, they would experience a 3.8 second per lap increase if everyone in the field stood still and did not develop their cars, however that of course is not the case.
I'm not really sure why this concept seems so difficult to understand?
