Adjustable rear wing to allow overtaking in 2011.

[WhiteBlue]

It sounds very artificial, unsporting and gimmicky with the complicated rules and the remote control by the SECU. Another band aid instead of a real solution.

[Mysticf1]

Active aero im all for it, only allowing a following car to use it...gimmick that would make F1 a joke.

[ESPImperium]

Personally, id like to see flexible rear wings brought back. Active aero is a sticking plaster. Bue Flexible aero raises saftey concerns tho.

Ive said it before, what F1 needs is smaller rear wings, to an extent almost like a LMP1 car, something that is skinny and held in place with a central pillar or pillars. Make them wider as well, back to 2008 width as well. To me this would reduce drag and also reduce downforce as well, also make the rear a bit more lively as well. At the rear id like to see the diffuser have a central section that was a mandated size and steepness. Anything in the extremities is fair game to me on the diffuser side of things.

As for front wings, id like to see the plane wings being banned, but the end plates to still have the complicated end plates. What id be looking at is something like what Renailt has from the Canadian GP;



Id also like to see the front wings raised by 100mm and reduced in width by the same ammount, reduce downforce that way should make the car have more turn in under-steer and less turn in oversteer.

One thing i think we should have is 10 "over revs" avalable to each driver per race. Id like energy recovery systems, but only as they are used to extend fuel milage like the new LMS regs, only avalable thrugh the gas pedal, however the recovery systems can be turned on and off to a drivers choosing. With the push to pass, id reduce the rev limit to 17,000 and make the "push to pass" at 19,000rpm. However make this avalable for only 10% of the drivers quali lap time, making the slower guys have more time on the P2P avalable.

One other area that needs changed is fuel, make the sport greener by limiting fuel to 100KG for every car, raising the weight to at least 750kg at the start of every GP where every car is checked before they go out on track, and 650kg as the minimum at the end of the race. Thus making energy recovery systems needed, as well as making designers make their cars more slipery as the downforce will eat up the fuel. I think all theese measures would encourage more overtaking and making designers think green with the current engine regs.

[Mysticf1]

Why do you want a tendency for turn in understeer? turn in oversteer creates a spectacle and makes the drivers work for their money...it was magnificent to watch them sliding everywhere during free practice last night.

[autogyro]

Why do you want a tendency for turn in understeer? turn in oversteer creates a spectacle and makes the drivers work for their money...it was magnificent to watch them sliding everywhere during free practice last night.

You will see a lot of exciting sliding around only until the team finds the level of DF needed, then the excitment goes away again.

[ESPImperium]

Why do you want a tendency for turn in understeer? turn in oversteer creates a spectacle and makes the drivers work for their money...it was magnificent to watch them sliding everywhere during free practice last night.

You will see a lot of exciting sliding around only until the team finds the level of DF needed, then the excitment goes away again.

Longer braking zones in otherwords, thus the most brave drivers gain the place over the less brave ones. However, they will have a more lary car on the exit due to the fact they dont have the load going thru the tyres to get the traction. However the most aggressive drivers should be punished for their lary-ness by the new FIA control kerbs on the exit, meaning they will ruin their floor of their cars.

Its all about reducing the downforce to a point where the mechanichal set up is more important. But with that means that mechanichal grip may have to increase again.

[Agenda_Is_Incorrect]

There is a report function on each post which you are free to use.
If you have a personal problem with me please use the PM facility and do not block the thread with personal abuse and irrelevant BS.

I'll not block threads anymore. Since this one was already blocked by you I tried to make something good out of it. Hopefully users and moderators are going to make it harder to have disruptive posts and users in the future. Now, you should try not to block treads as well. Got the hang of how bad this is?

No more on your last post about oil companies in name of not destroying the topic. Just will say this: Honda, Toyota, BMW and GM Volt.

Seems the users at least are aware of the agenda problem here and responding in the best ways possible. So the disruption was not useless as it is usually.

[WhiteBlue]

One other area that needs changed is fuel, make the sport greener by limiting fuel to 100KG for every car.. Thus making energy recovery systems needed, as well as making designers make their cars more slipery as the downforce will eat up the fuel. I think all theese measures would encourage more overtaking and making designers think green with the current engine regs.

+1

[xpensive]

Your suggestion means limiting fuel-load to 135 liters, which is at least 30% less than today's. The only way of doing that is to radically reduce air-resistance, but even if you take off the wings completely, the Cv of an open-wheeler is still rather dramatic. But as air-resistance goes with the square of the speed, why you probably can achieve it with a substantial slowing down of the cars. Will the fans accept that?

Active aerodynamics would be a step on the way however.

[WhiteBlue]

Your suggestion means limiting fuel-load to 135 liters, which is at least 30% less than today's. The only way of doing that is to radically reduce air-resistance, but even if you take off the wings completely, the Cv of an open-wheeler is still rather dramatic. But as air-resistance goes with the square of the speed, why you probably can achieve it with a substantial slowing down of the cars. Will the fans accept that?

Active aerodynamics would be a step on the way however.

Not very credible considering that historic GP cars reached 300+ km/h with half the horse power we have now. Absolute performance would go down but speed not really. With 700 bhp you can still run some moderate downforce and drag but not five time the minimum weight of the car. But what is wrong with twice the weight of the car?

[WhiteBlue]

One other area that needs changed is fuel, make the sport greener by limiting fuel to 100KG for every car.. Thus making energy recovery systems needed, as well as making designers make their cars more slipery as the downforce will eat up the fuel. I think all theese measures would encourage more overtaking and making designers think green with the current engine regs.

+1

Your suggestion means limiting fuel-load to 135 liters, which is at least 30% less than today's. The only way of doing that is to radically reduce air-resistance, but even if you take off the wings completely, the Cv of an open-wheeler is still rather dramatic. But as air-resistance goes with the square of the speed, why you probably can achieve it with a substantial slowing down of the cars. Will the fans accept that? Active aerodynamics would be a step on the way however.

Not very credible considering that historic GP cars reached 300+ km/h with half the horse power we have now. Absolute performance would go down but speed not really. With 700 bhp you can still run some moderate downforce and drag but not five time the minimum weight of the car. But what is wrong with twice the weight of the car?

Let's try to recapture the discussion at the point where it got derailed. The concept that ESPImperium proposed would be changing the average speed indeed. That is undeniable. Average power setting would have to come down because the high doenforce and drag would not be sustainable. Top power would be the same but enjoyable for less time. Primarily cornering speeds would be reduced, which isn't a bad thing. Fans of massive G-forces would be disappointed, but fans of the corner challenges of the seventies, eighties and mid nineties would triumph.

[kfzmeister]

Hi guys,

Sorry to post in between your personal stabbing each other, but thought that i'd bring up a point about this new adjustable wing.

I read the same article in German yesterday, yet thought that it explained the proposed idea a little differently than what's been written in this thread.

The way that i read that they want to design this rear wing is that it is adjustable by each driver so that it works similarly to the f-duct, except mechanically with a flap. The effect is the same; it lessens down force to achieve higher top speed on the straights.If a pursuing driver get's to within a second of the car ahead, there will be a green display in his cockpit and he can then push a button that will change the wing setting of........the car ahead! In other words, the car ahead will have its wing setting momentarily altered by the driver behind so that he can make a pass!
It will increase the lead cars down force, thus slowing him down and the car behind with its setting still to "low down force/ higher speed" should be able to comlete the pass.

In order to not create chaos at the start, this system will only be available after lap 3 of a GP.

How to make this work immediately after a safety car is still being discussed (The lead car would simply be a sitting duck).

This, in theory, will prevent "Trulli trains". If this has been explained in such a way already, my apologies. I've read both articles explaining this in German and wasn't sure if it had properly been explained already.

[autogyro]

It is a completely false stupid and silly idea.
Its purpose is to maintain the high downforce aerodynamics that dominate F1 at the expense of all other technical development.
It is F1 being led by the nose by vested interests that wish to hide everything other than aero so as to control such things as energy use (which you need lots of for high DF) engine specification (which they can force to be controlled to save them money and to delay new alternate ideas).

[hollus]

I don't know what was written, but I am very sure that they won't allow driver A to influence the geometry of the car of driver B. No matter what, that would be madness and freaking dangerous.
This full idea of electronic sensors triggering a light to give your car superpowers... sounds of arcade machine to me. Why not also create a slow puncture in one wheel, only one wheel for all drivers, at random, and unbeknownst to drivers and engineers. Just to spice up the show?
It it ain't broken, don't fix it. Terrible idea.

[WhiteBlue]

he can then push a button that will change the wing setting of........the car ahead! In other words, the car ahead will have its wing setting momentarily altered by the driver behind so that he can make a pass!

You seem to have misunderstood something. I will translate the main point.

Im Duell zweier Fahrer darf nur der Hintermann diesen Vorteil nutzen. Je nach Strecke gibt es einen Mindestabstand zwischen zwei Fahrzeugen, ab dem der Überholknopf gedrückt werden darf. Er wird nach Aussage einiger Technikchefs bei ungefähr einer Sekunde liegen. Wer weiter weg ist, kann das System nicht nutzen.

Der Fahrer bekommt auf dem Display mit einem grünen Licht angezeigt, ob er nah genug ist. Am Ende der Geraden muss er den Flügel durch einen weiteren Knopfdruck wieder in die Ausgangsstellung bringen. Vergisst er es, soll ein Automatismus eingreifen, um zu verhindern, dass der Fahrer mangels Abtrieb den Bremspunkt überschießt.

In the fight between two drivers only the following driver is allowed to use this advantage. A minimum distance between two vehicles exists depending of the circuit where the push to pass button may be pushed. The distance will be equal to one second according to some tech bosses. If the driver is farer away he cannot use the system.

The driver gets a green light on the dash that shows him when he is close enough. At the end of the straight the driver has to bring the wing back to the initial position by another push of the button. If the driver forgets to reset the reset will be initiated automatically (by the SECU) to prevent him overshooting his braking point due to lack of downforce.

It would be against every safety philosophy to set wings on another but your own vehicle.

It is a completely false stupid and silly idea. Its purpose is to maintain the high downforce aerodynamics that dominate F1 at the expense of all other technical development.

Partly agree. The main reason to reject it is the manipulation of the sporting contest.