Racer_D wrote:Jersey Tom wrote:IMO if you're only looking at pyrometer temperatures for setup, you're leaving a heap of performance on the table.
Some tires at some tracks may want a different temp spread than others. There's no one answer for what is best. That's another reason I say the concept of "optimum" in racing is BS.
Everyone has their own tricks of what to look at, when, and in what light.
Allright - from reading the other posts here (especially about even F1-teams not knowing their tires well enough), I can see this is a very difficult subject.
From what I know, a track is *always* different - the F3-races I went to had touring cars, FFords, etc. all putting down their own rubber, marbles, oil etc. on the track. So the aspect of other cars on track change it during the course of a weekend. At the same time, track temperature may vary a lot as a function of weather. So how on earth is it possible to predict the right tire settings etc.?
For instance, would tire engineers be able to advice: okay, track temperature is 35 degrees now, drop half a degree in camber if you want more 'stick'?
I am sure engineers take tire temperatures (from either DAQ or pyrometers) just to have the info, but I really wonder how they interpret it, what they do with it. If people have their own tricks to look at things, when to look at things, I wonder how 'exact' this tire science is right now.
The "problem" with tire engineers hired by tire companies is whether they tow the company policy or not. A tire engineer has to adhere to company policies in the information they share, mostly due to legal aspects and protecting company knowledge. They know far more than they are willing to share. Especially when involved with a spec tire.
Personally I have found out more about a tire type,temp range effects (over and under, as well as target) by having conversations with the tire compound engineer. (Most of them are happy to talk, as nobody ever seeks them out) They seem more willing to share information, at least on the chemical side and at times will share the construction end. For instance whether it is better to scrub or run from new or what the "real" top pressure level is before explosion (was way beyond what the tire engineer said)
The constant change in the chemical properties throughout the tires life and use, have a direct effect on temp ranges and of course the grip level. Temp distribution, levels and cycling are the dominant factors in this chemical change.
One of the most important aspect of tire temp, is the core heat and the retention of it. Without ample (under worked) or too extreme core heat (overworked tire), the outside, surface temp may "appear" on an IR logging graph or a pyro reading as being normal on a short run, yet the core is far off. Internally measuring the air temp through a doubled air pressure/air temp sensor reading can help keep the ranges "in check" and lead to a better understanding of optimum levels of grip.
The variables of making tires, is very similar to making cake. A couple degrees of room temperature or humidity can change the exact same tire procedure and create a tire that is different from the rest. Shipping a tire on a hot truck or train, can change it further (more curing). Leaving your tires out in the sun and the UV light will change it further.
To make this conversation,even less controllable, a bias ply vs a radial has properties in vertical and lateral weight loadings and grip levels that almost opposite of each other. One type of tire can absorb a quick vertical weight transfer (bias), the other will lose grip (momentarily) with the quickness of the accelerations (radial).
From an engineering stand point, one would approach the setup, say... with spring rates for example, that would differ according to the tire type.
The science of tires, is a less exact in measurement and in maximizing grip, than we would like it to be. Especially coming up with an exact measurement of the optimum contact patch and the exact path it follows. Kinda like trying to measure a rubber band that can bend, flex, contort, twist, expand, compress and warp in one small spot.
The person that can invent a selection of sensors that could measure this to an exact science, will become very rich indeed. IMHO
"Driving a car as fast as possible (in a race) is all about maintaining the highest possible acceleration level in the appropriate direction." Peter Wright,Techical Director, Team Lotus