What will come after the 2.4 V8?

[xpensive]

If you scroll back to page 38 andrew, you will find that you are not alone with this idea, even a well respected moderator agrees.

[WhiteBlue]

Here's a crazy idea. Why not just keep the engines to the same spec? The teams know the technology to make it work well for them and can make 2.4 V8s last several races. Change is fine as long as it improves something, but change for changes sake is just mindless. I think they should work on the aero instead of changing the engine format.

That is only an option from the fan perspective. It would mean giving up on the fuel efficiency targets the FiA has set in 2006. The current engines have nor turbo charging, no direct injection, no downsizing and no integrated KERS. For every one of those aspects you would loose significant fuel savings. The downsizing, the turbo and the integrated KERS are issues that are basically not curable with the current base design.

Setting fuel load caps to limit the aero is something that can be done with both types of engines and I think it should be done ASAP.

Both the FiA and the team sponsors cannot afford to keep antiquated technologies that wastes energy to no purpose. Ferrari, Mercedes and all the international brands that advertise in F1 want to promote efficient technologies. The new marketing of the automotive sponsors is totally geared towards hybrid, direct injection, down sized and turbo engines. Even Ferrari make no exception there. It would be naive to think that the coinciding interests of the FiA, the manufacturers and the sponsors would not prevail on that issue. Even for the fans there is the advantage that we get a shake up in the engine competitiveness and the lifting of the engine freeze.

My bottom line: Change is inevitable.

[WhiteBlue]

If someone wants to do a really rigid and tightly packaged six cylinder he could have a look at Bentley Continental GT Supersports's W12 block.



If you cut that beast in two you could end up with a power cube of an engine. Not ultimately fuel efficient but ultimately packaged.

[xpensive]

Or you could perhaps keep all tweve pots, destroke it to 1.5 liters and turbocharge it for the new formula?

[WhiteBlue]

Or you could perhaps keep all tweve pots, destroke it to 1.5 liters and turbocharge it for the new formula?

I have to admit that I love the idea of the Bentley. When you are out to waste a lot of energy you may as well do it in style. The 6L beast is already turbo charged. So my proposal wasn't meant literally in terms of taking the block but use a double VR3 or W6 block design for a 1.5L capacity. As I said you would certainly take a hit in efficiency but the engine would make a very tight and rigid package. That could be useful when we start needing space for a maximized KERS package.

If you go W12 you would use a lot more longitudinal space and the fuel efficiency would again massively go down. Not such a good idea if you want to win in an efficiency formula.

[xpensive]

Isn't that really a VW-engine to begin with, perhaps their secret plan for F1 and we will see it in a Williams soon?

[Just_a_fan]

Both the FiA and the team sponsors cannot afford to keep antiquated technologies that wastes energy to no purpose.

One could point out that motor racing is a waste of energy to no purpose. The embodied energy in the cars makes the issue of burning a few litres more or less of petrol totally irrlevant.

All of the stuff being proposed is just fluff, politics and marketing. Let's not forget that.

For the majority of fans - you know, the people who make the whole thing viable - what matters is not how fuel efficient the cars are or whether the thrung-sprockets are woven from yak-friendly nettle fibres. What matters to the fans is the excitement of watching stupidly fast cars brightening their otherwise dreary lives.

F1 is about fantasy. People have enough 'efficency', 'relevance', 'politics' in their daily lives. F1 is an escape for a few hours each week for these people.

[Just_a_fan]

Isn't that really a VW-engine to begin with, perhaps their secret plan for F1 and we will see it in a Williams soon?

It's basically a pair of VW VR6 engines siamesed on to the common crank I believe.

[WhiteBlue]

Isn't that really a VW-engine to begin with, perhaps their secret plan for F1 and we will see it in a Williams soon?

It sure is a VW W12 with blowers. The Tuareg, Phaeton and Golf GTI uses the basic engine but only Bentley is allowed to do the blow job.

If Williams want to loose that would surely be an option.

[WhiteBlue]

Both the FiA and the team sponsors cannot afford to keep antiquated technologies that wastes energy to no purpose.

One could point out that motor racing is a waste of energy to no purpose. The embodied energy in the cars makes the issue of burning a few litres more or less of petrol totally irrlevant.

All of the stuff being proposed is just fluff, politics and marketing. Let's not forget that.

For the majority of fans - you know, the people who make the whole thing viable - what matters is not how fuel efficient the cars are or whether the thrung-sprockets are woven from yak-friendly nettle fibres. What matters to the fans is the excitement of watching stupidly fast cars brightening their otherwise dreary lives.

F1 is about fantasy. People have enough 'efficency', 'relevance', 'politics' in their daily lives. F1 is an escape for a few hours each week for these people.

I love that lyrical waxing Just_a_fan! The fans may be the ultimate consumers but hey are never the ultimate decision makers. In the end most fans who pay for the circus with they consumption of the TV advertisements are much too far away from the action and too shallowly interested to realize the difference. So the marketing preferences of the paymasters will shape the things to come in terms of the future F1 power trains. When the FiA, Ferrari and Mercedes (Brawn is also the FOTA tech boss) agree to do a down sized turbo that will be the stupidly fast cars that fans will be watching (to 99% on TV) to brighten their otherwise dreary lives.

[010010011010]

Hes right, F1 is a waste of energy ultimately, and efficency in F1 is a joke for publicity. The only reason they should be efficent is to win, not because they want to look good. Remember its always form following function. Trying to save a few KG of petrol in a sport that flys all over the world carrying thousands of kgs of people and machinery is also unneccesary, and it burns a LOT more more fuel.

[rjsa]

I love that lyrical waxing Just_a_fan! The fans may be the ultimate consumers but hey are never the ultimate decision makers. In the end most fans who pay for the circus with they consumption of the TV advertisements are much too far away from the action and too shallowly interested to realize the difference. So the marketing preferences of the paymasters will shape the things to come in terms of the future F1 power trains. When the FiA, Ferrari and Mercedes (Brawn is also the FOTA tech boss) agree to do a down sized turbo that will be the stupidly fast cars that fans will be watching (to 99% on TV) to brighten their otherwise dreary lives.

The golden goose has no say on what it's fed, but once dead it will indeed stop giving it's shiny eggs.

Just have a look at Indy to see what a bad move can do. F1 tried hard to fail recently and now seems to get it's head above the water. Let's not sink it back for the sake of PC crap.

[xpensive]

Hes right, F1 is a waste of energy ultimately, and efficency in F1 is a joke for publicity. The only reason they should be efficent is to win, not because they want to look good. Remember its always form following function. Trying to save a few KG of petrol in a sport that flys all over the world carrying thousands of kgs of people and machinery is also unneccesary, and it burns a LOT more more fuel.

You are correct in every logical and reasonable way digital, but there might also have some symbolic value to the manufacturers and the perception of the FIA aroud the world, sombody seems to think along those lines anyway?

[WhiteBlue]

The golden goose has no say on what it's fed, but once dead it will indeed stop giving it's shiny eggs.

Just have a look at Indy to see what a bad move can do. F1 tried hard to fail recently and now seems to get it's head above the water. Let's not sink it back for the sake of PC crap.

Open wheel racing in the USA failed because they split the series and made silly marketing decisions which NASCAR did not. It is the best example to show that you need to make the right marketing decisions to be commercially successful. Or do you argue that NASCAR has better technology than F1 to attract the fans?

We are talking technology and marketing here. I'm saying F1 needs top technology which follows the marketing trends of high performance sports cars. High performance sports cars are no different to other road cars. They are being sold on fuel efficiency while the performance is so high that it is no reasonable point for competition any more. Just take the famed McLaren MP4-12C. The talking point and USP versus Ferrari is efficiency. Just watch Ferrari counter that pretty soon with direct injection turbos. They have already announced the new trend. The battle lines are drawn. Ferrari, Mercedes, Renault and McLaren are in F1 to sell stupid cars, cars that make no sense except to suit the wet dreams of boys or the boys in men. Efficiency is the new holy grail in sports cars and F1 would be dumb not to embrace it.

The golden goose will still have 700 bhp and ear splitting noise to admire while the golden eggs will be spent to purchase high efficiency road cars.

Hes right, F1 is a waste of energy ultimately, and efficency in F1 is a joke for publicity. The only reason they should be efficent is to win, not because they want to look good. Remember its always form following function. Trying to save a few KG of petrol in a sport that flys all over the world carrying thousands of kgs of people and machinery is also unneccesary, and it burns a LOT more more fuel.

You are right 001 with the reason to win. I fully expect the PTB to implement rules that make the most efficient F1 cars win.

[xpensive]

Perhaps we have two very similar threads going here moderator, this one and "Technical regulations for..."? Anyway I still find a 1500 cc, mildly boosted, 600 Hp I-4 just a tad simplistic for F1. I hope they stick with the 2.4 V8 or go with a 1.8 V6-TC.