Mclaren Mercedes MP4-25

[Shaddock]

I wonder if an exhaust positioned on the top lip of the diffuser - where they normally have a gurney - might help the diffuser to work more effectively.

You'll get peaks and troughs in DF levels as the revs rise and fall. The secret is to blend the air from exhausts into the diffuser to reduce it's sensitivity to changes in the airflow. The RB do this from the sides of the diffuser and not directly into it, will the 25's rear suspension get in the way if they try to copy this idea?

[Just_a_fan]

You'll get peaks and troughs in DF levels as the revs rise and fall. The secret is to blend the air from exhausts into the diffuser to reduce it's sensitivity to changes in the airflow. The RB do this from the sides of the diffuser and not directly into it, will the 25's rear suspension get in the way if they try to copy this idea?

Indeed so, but historically the exhaust has been pumped straight through the diffuser. Next year RB's current solution won't be allowed and neither will direct feed in to the diffuser. Perhaps the use of a top feed as I suggested would be a compromise that would still work.

[thestig84]

I wonder if an exhaust positioned on the top lip of the diffuser - where they normally have a gurney - might help the diffuser to work more effectively.

You'll get peaks and troughs in DF levels as the revs rise and fall. The secret is to blend the air from exhausts into the diffuser to reduce it's sensitivity to changes in the airflow. The RB do this from the sides of the diffuser and not directly into it, will the 25's rear suspension get in the way if they try to copy this idea?

Yes the suspension probably will get in the way. However I have heard from my source the suspension will be revised for Silverstone too. All the effort is going into Silverstone package so they are not expecting so much from Valencia with Ferrari and others bringing their big update then.

[Shaddock]

You'll get peaks and troughs in DF levels as the revs rise and fall. The secret is to blend the air from exhausts into the diffuser to reduce it's sensitivity to changes in the airflow. The RB do this from the sides of the diffuser and not directly into it, will the 25's rear suspension get in the way if they try to copy this idea?

Indeed so, but historically the exhaust has been pumped straight through the diffuser. Next year RB's current solution won't be allowed and neither will direct feed in to the diffuser. Perhaps the use of a top feed as I suggested would be a compromise that would still work.

Wasn't that one of the reasons teams moved away from placing their exhausts above the diffuser. The old style diffusers were less sensitive (crude even) than diffusers under the current Regs.

I’m sure I read somewhere that a poorly designed exhaust/diffuser solution could cause a momentary low pressure (from a drop in revs) in the air flow before the diffuser, reducing DF levels to below the point that the diffuser would normally work at without the exhaust gas being introduced.

[Richard]

You'll get peaks and troughs in DF levels as the revs rise and fall. The secret is to blend the air from exhausts into the diffuser to reduce it's sensitivity to changes in the airflow. The RB do this from the sides of the diffuser and not directly into it, will the 25's rear suspension get in the way if they try to copy this idea?

Indeed so, but historically the exhaust has been pumped straight through the diffuser. Next year RB's current solution won't be allowed and neither will direct feed in to the diffuser. Perhaps the use of a top feed as I suggested would be a compromise that would still work.

Wasn't that one of the reasons teams moved away from placing their exhausts above the diffuser. The old style diffusers were less sensitive (crude even) than diffusers under the current Regs.

I’m sure I read somewhere that a poorly designed exhaust/diffuser solution could cause a momentary low pressure (from a drop in revs) in the air flow before the diffuser, reducing DF levels to below the point that the diffuser would normally work at without the exhaust gas being introduced.

Well RB seem to have figured out the fluctuations due to revs.

Lets see what the McLaren answer looks like.

[Gaara]

did mclaren use the f-duct in canada? because the top speed wasn't the highest

[Richard]

did mclaren use the f-duct in canada? because the top speed wasn't the highest

It would help to quote the numbers The entire season's race data can be found in the relevant thread ... viewtopic.php?p=178036#p178036

Kubica was top on 259kph, Button 256kph, Hamilton 255, RB 256. So not much in it.

The F duct allows them to play with the amount of wing with less penalty on the straights.

So it is possible they chose to put on a lot more wing than others to get good grip around twisty bits (and the start ). Without the F-duct, that level of wing would have crippled them.

Also the amount of rear wing downforce changes the balance on the car, and hence wear on rear tyres. That may have been a factor.

[conni]

did mclaren use the f-duct in canada? because the top speed wasn't the highest

the f duct isnt designed just to give a higher top speed But to allow you to match others top speed but run more down force

conni

[MattF1]

The f-duct isnt designed just to give a higher top speed But to allow you to match others top speed but run more down force

Surely it could be used for either, although more downforce is of a greater advantage obviously.

[Just_a_fan]

but remember RedBull saying the exhaust system was where the least gain was to be made??

That's called a bluff. Much like Brawn last year saying that the DD wasn't the key to their performance. Now that everyone has a fully developed DD where are Brawn/Mercedes...?

[jason.parker.86]

A lot of Ferrari talk in the MP4/25 thread. If i wanted to know about the technical aspects of the F10 and what it's next udpates would bring, i'd probably look in the F10 thread.....

Actually I was refering to the fact that the exhaust mods are worth so much as 0.7s; and was trying to see how Macca could develop a system on their vehicle.

but remember RedBull saying the exhaust system was where the least gain was to be made??

That's called a bluff. Much like Brawn last year saying that the DD wasn't the key to their performance. Now that everyone has a fully developed DD where are Brawn/Mercedes...?

Yeah I thought as much, but I hope Macca are at the forefront of development with these exhaust exits, however I am very shocked that we are 1/2 way into the season and its going to be another race or two before McLaren have got them on their car. It took them less longer do develop the DDD. I understand that doing the exhausts is not easy, but in terms of a technical challenge, I would have thought that it would have been a walk in the park compared to the DDD Last year!

[NaZzO]

did mclaren use the f-duct in canada? because the top speed wasn't the highest

Kubica was top on 259kph, Button 256kph, Hamilton 255, RB 256. So not much in it.

.

Those numbers are too low for top speed. maybe you are referring to sector 1 top speeds.
The actual speed traps for Montreal are: Petrov and Kubica @ 324kph, Alguersuari and DiGrassi @ 323kph, and Button @ 320 kph.

Those are still available in the f1.com live timing application. Look for it in the weather and speed tab.

http://www.formula1.com/live_timing/liv ... popup.html

[Blackout]

did mclaren use the f-duct in canada? because the top speed wasn't the highest

That means their F-duct is incredibly powerful: McLaren didn't brought a specific low downforce wings to Montreal; they used the Istanbul spec (wich generates a far greater amount of DF) ! and despite that, they had a competitive Top speed...

[Blackout]

Look how steep and large that wing (mclaren Wing) is...

[raceman]

^^wow, these photos are handy for exact comparison!

thnx blackout for sharing.