Adjustable rear wing to allow overtaking in 2011.

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ESPImperium
ESPImperium
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Joined: 06 Apr 2008, 00:08
Location: Glasgow, Scotland

Re: Adjustable rear wing to allow overtaking in 2011.

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WhiteBlue wrote:
WhiteBlue wrote:
ESPImperium wrote:One other area that needs changed is fuel, make the sport greener by limiting fuel to 100KG for every car.. Thus making energy recovery systems needed, as well as making designers make their cars more slipery as the downforce will eat up the fuel. I think all theese measures would encourage more overtaking and making designers think green with the current engine regs.
+1
WhiteBlue wrote:
xpensive wrote:Your suggestion means limiting fuel-load to 135 liters, which is at least 30% less than today's. The only way of doing that is to radically reduce air-resistance, but even if you take off the wings completely, the Cv of an open-wheeler is still rather dramatic. But as air-resistance goes with the square of the speed, why you probably can achieve it with a substantial slowing down of the cars. Will the fans accept that? Active aerodynamics would be a step on the way however.
Not very credible considering that historic GP cars reached 300+ km/h with half the horse power we have now. Absolute performance would go down but speed not really. With 700 bhp you can still run some moderate downforce and drag but not five time the minimum weight of the car. But what is wrong with twice the weight of the car?
Let's try to recapture the discussion at the point where it got derailed. The concept that ESPImperium proposed would be changing the average speed indeed. That is undeniable. Average power setting would have to come down because the high doenforce and drag would not be sustainable. Top power would be the same but enjoyable for less time. Primarily cornering speeds would be reduced, which isn't a bad thing. Fans of massive G-forces would be disappointed, but fans of the corner challenges of the seventies, eighties and mid nineties would triumph.
I think you have my argument in one WB. Reduce aero by up to 80% on 2008 and current levels (Both roughly the same). Make the designers try to make their cars more slippery thru the air, with increased mechanichal grip, where id like to allow things like mass dampers, Torque Transfer Rods and dare I say it allow active suspension again. Making the aero less important and actually getting the cars back to having a more greener outlook with roughly the same levels of grip, although this may be diluted by as much as 30-40% in real terms. Green technologies like KERS and HERS should be allowed, but with no push to pass button, these systems are deployed to make the car consume less fuel from the gas pedal ant nothing else.

Someone mooted the idea on the engine rules thread once where there is a locked 5KG fuel tank that a driver that is marginal on fuel can use but once its used they must drive like they are a lap down, I like this idea, but without the lap down. What should happen then is that the engine should be then switched to its leanest mode to make the finish. For this id make it that each engine should only have a maximum of 5 fuel modes, 5 being the leanest and 1 being the most power the engine can produce from its fuel.

Id take away a lot of what the driver can control on his steering wheel, id like to see only a couple of rotary controls, and a few buttons. Possibly go down the road of standardising the steering wheels, and with this the telemetry, but this would be a long term goal. If a team want to change a setting they can do so at a pit stop by connecting the umbilical and performing a data transfer.

One other goal id do with the rules is make it that a team that has been in the sport more than 2 years (including name changes EG; Honda > Brawn > Mercedes) to only be allowed one major aero revision per year and another 3 minor ones. This would make Monza and Monaco spec aero solutions to be a thing of the past. I feel that getting the smaller teams up to speed is needed, to this id make a new team have to follow a minimum of 18 month lead time to get their car on the grid.

Id make it that gearboxes should follow engines with a maximum of 5 per season per driver. And the Gearbox and engine rule would be changed to be concurrent changes (Ferarri at Bahrain would have to have ditched their 1st engines after Bahrain Quali on both cars, and not be used again this season) I feel this would make engine engineers think more, and also make the team worry more.

Its all about cutting costs, creating overtaking and improving the show what I have suggested. I don’t have the figures or brain power that others may have, but im trying to think about what would improve F1, make driver skill and bravery shine thru, but also show that the fastest and most aggressive driver doesn’t always win as well. Im also trying to improve the green credentials of the sport as well.

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PlatinumZealot
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Joined: 12 Jun 2008, 03:45

Re: Adjustable rear wing to allow overtaking in 2011.

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Active suspesnion is not the way to go. Take a look at the new Nissan GTR and see what I mean. It practically can go through any corer.
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xpensive
xpensive
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Joined: 22 Nov 2008, 18:06
Location: Somewhere in Scandinavia

Re: Adjustable rear wing to allow overtaking in 2011.

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So this gimmick became a reality from 2011, I can't believe it?
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autogyro
autogyro
53
Joined: 04 Oct 2009, 15:03

Re: Adjustable rear wing to allow overtaking in 2011.

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I think this will be a complete disaster.

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Holm86
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Joined: 10 Feb 2010, 03:37
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark

Re: Adjustable rear wing to allow overtaking in 2011.

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Im really not a fan of this. I Believe many other things could be done to increase the amount of overtakings.

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WhiteBlue
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Joined: 14 Apr 2008, 20:58
Location: WhiteBlue Country

Re: Adjustable rear wing to allow overtaking in 2011.

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A classic example of treating symptoms rather than the disease. Side by side racing suffers due to loss of downforce in dirty air. So the real solution should be making the air cleaner and see to it that the downforce isn't so high in the first place.
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Holm86
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Joined: 10 Feb 2010, 03:37
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark

Re: Adjustable rear wing to allow overtaking in 2011.

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exactly. why not a completly flat floor no diffusers allowed. and then front tyres as wide as before and rear tyres even wider. and wider rear wings to compencate a bit for the missing diffuser.

RacingManiac
RacingManiac
9
Joined: 22 Nov 2004, 02:29

Re: Adjustable rear wing to allow overtaking in 2011.

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The DDD and F-Duct of 2011 will be the adjustable rearwing Proximity sensor jamming device....so the light doesn't come on for the trailing driver so he can't use the wing.....:D

I kid....

xpensive
xpensive
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Joined: 22 Nov 2008, 18:06
Location: Somewhere in Scandinavia

Re: Adjustable rear wing to allow overtaking in 2011.

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All these gimmick will do nothing but confuse the viewers, what are they thinking?
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Callum
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Joined: 18 Jan 2009, 15:03
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland

Re: Adjustable rear wing to allow overtaking in 2011.

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How will the following car know it is exactly one second behind??

RacingManiac
RacingManiac
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Joined: 22 Nov 2004, 02:29

Re: Adjustable rear wing to allow overtaking in 2011.

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there is a light that'll tell them that its ready to be used...

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ISLAMATRON
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Joined: 01 Oct 2008, 18:29

Re: Adjustable rear wing to allow overtaking in 2011.

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since they already have them why didnt they keep the front wing adjusters? it couldnt help to lower those on the straight too.

These FOTA back and forth rules could only come from the brain of an Idiot the magnitude of Luca M. And the other team principles are even bigger idiots for listening to him. Pure jackasses the whole bunch of them.

WB is 100% correct when he says they are trying to cure the symptom rather than the disease, cure F1 to death.

I do like how it can only be used when within 1 second, and so therefore cant be used in defence... look for alot more dangerous defensive driving from Webbo & MS next year, that should be alot of fun in the race threads.

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Callum
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Joined: 18 Jan 2009, 15:03
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland

Re: Adjustable rear wing to allow overtaking in 2011.

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RacingManiac wrote:there is a light that'll tell them that its ready to be used...
Not how will the driver know but how will the car know instantaneously?

mx_tifoso
mx_tifoso
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Joined: 30 Nov 2006, 05:01
Location: North America

Re: Adjustable rear wing to allow overtaking in 2011.

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Is GPS exact down to meters? But then don't the distances between cars vary a lot as in one might pull away in the straights or the corners?

This is all to 'arcade-ish' for me. Or is the FIA's way to tell us that there is more 'technology' in the pinnacle series?
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Rob W
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Joined: 18 Aug 2006, 03:28

Re: Adjustable rear wing to allow overtaking in 2011.

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mx_tifosi wrote:Is GPS exact down to meters? But then don't the distances between cars vary a lot as in one might pull away in the straights or the corners?

This is all to 'arcade-ish' for me. Or is the FIA's way to tell us that there is more 'technology' in the pinnacle series?
I agree - although maybe they'll use the buried sensors which work out where the cars are...

On the arcade-ish point, I also agree. Some of the things they've done/talked about over the years seem so unnecessarily complex that they either are doomed to circumvention somehow by teams or (as we've see with engines) teams claiming theirs isn't working as well as others etc etc.

Whiteblue makes a good point above in that they're treating symptoms rather than the disease.