Mercedes GP MGP W01

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

The W01 is too far off, Mercedes need to bring their AMG boys on board
The SLS was Too Good according to Autocar and wouldnt win its shoot out due to its "souless" character. They gave it to the inferior Aston...go figure

In the end Mercedes need to gamble here, Get the guys on board or go home. As Mercedes die hard...they need to pay the cash to get the Neweys of this world Ferrari have been doing it for the last 30 years...

[marcush.]

Could it possibly be a matter of complacency from last years success, wouldn't be the first time that happens?

I´m pretty sure this is a carryover problem of 2009 .they had those issues in a lot of races last year ,and it affected both drivers at different parts of the season if
I remember correctly .

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

BGP01 and W01 are different concepts in terms of tyre use.

Brawn himself says so.


Leads me to believe they are different cars...

[marcush.]

the cars have different concepts but all the more it is striking the tyre issue remained ...even with different tyres(!)


what about Vasselon from Toyota?

that guy must be one of the few with real deep tyre knowledge and Toyota was close to making the jump to the front...this could help give them direction for 2011 as well.
poaching away someone from a current team,who ,apart from Newey may be able to solve their problem ?

what happened to all the guys from SA after they worked on the concept for the 2009 brawn? mark preston runs formtech in the uk but did they retain all the staff ?

[Blackout]

I always compared the current Mercedes situation with Renault's 2007 season. And I agree with ringo; the car's conception is maybe the problem.
There is many similarities between the problems faced by the R27 and the problems that the W01 faces today...

The Michelin tires required a lot of weight on the rear tires, for the Bridgestone it was the opposite. In 2007, Renault did not allow enough weight to the front tires. Same story for the 'downforce' distribution... that's why that car lacked of grip and aero efficiency.

I think Mercedes did similar mistakes in 2010; the narrower front tires do not need as much ballast as before. And Mercedes changed its weight distribution twice this season to rectify that, but I think it was insufficient; the car is too short and compact... and it's more difficult to rethink the aerodynamic due to the new drastic regulations (homolagated nose etc.)

Same problem for Renault in 2007, but in the other way around; they were urged to move more weight toward the front and modify the FW and the nose in order to generate more downforce. But Renault discovered the problem too late in the season and unfortunately the wind tunnel and the budget were very limited...

[Afterburner]

Last year they had a big advantadge with the DDD (almost 2s!!), this year they didn't tried nothing really good like Mclaren with the f-duct or RB with their unique rear end package and now they're trying to catch up like ferrari, mclaren and renault with the exception they started late with the development of the MGP1, i think they should have ended testing time with the car we saw when they brought the new air intake scoop (wich we don't know if it's a really good concept), and develop the car from that point so i think it's just a timing problem with the MGP01, i really hope they don't do the same thing with the MGP02.

[marcush.]

I can´t see this.
the renault is the short car and it does not have the same problems..
If the car is bad ,it is bad ,but in certain moments of the race the car is quick ,and as there is no big difference in fuel loads this speed is original and no fluke.
If you have an inherent canceptual flaw that speed was just not possible.slow is slow.
i doubt the dd difusser is 2 seconds,the brawn had not just the ddd as a original idea.

i´m pretty sure we miss the boat completely at this time ..it has to be something with the tyres ,how Redbull and Mclaren have found to get more out of them ,for qualy.What ever they do ,it works.and it does not transfer to the race with full tank...

[spinmastermic]

Seems like the SA guys they took in gave them the DDD idea, which gave them the best car after two years of muppet mobiles. Now they're back to producing crap. Shame

[donskar]

Interesting discussion. One thing I accept as a certainty -- Brawn is excellent, but he can't do it alone. I might go a bit farther and say Brawn is not as important to a team's success as Newey is. (I'm a Brawn fan, BTW).

[marcush.]

Brawn is not comparable to Newey in my view ,he´s more the organiser and head figure the intgrating element the boss.
Newey is non of that he´s a genius ,not someone who would be able to lead a group of people .
but back to the Merc.the car is surely not crap,in good moments it is not far of the pace but it surely is good in amuch smaller window than the RB and Macs.
The guys have not managed to widen up this window towards low fuel performance yet with the developments they realised.
So how could they work the tyres harder? maybe the flimsy redbull sports something like elastokinematics?

[Afterburner]

Well, it's not looking very good mercedes pushing developments and the car not going forward comparing to other teams, Brawn it's a really focused person and has the "know how" but maybe mercedes is lacking another quality person to gave Ross more freedom about car development and concept related.

[ringo]

I can´t see this.
the renault is the short car and it does not have the same problems..
If the car is bad ,it is bad ,but in certain moments of the race the car is quick ,and as there is no big difference in fuel loads this speed is original and no fluke.
If you have an inherent canceptual flaw that speed was just not possible.slow is slow.
i doubt the dd difusser is 2 seconds,the brawn had not just the ddd as a original idea.

i´m pretty sure we miss the boat completely at this time ..it has to be something with the tyres ,how Redbull and Mclaren have found to get more out of them ,for qualy.What ever they do ,it works.and it does not transfer to the race with full tank...

I think the car being quick at certain moments has to do with what brawn has tried to do to artificially dress it up. His fixes only work in these little moments. These could be hinged on certain fuel levels, tyre temperatures, ride heights and other factors that vary during the race.
For all we know, the slight change in camber as the car rises over a race could affect the grip, as an extreme example.

[marcush.]

I can´t see this.
the renault is the short car and it does not have the same problems..
If the car is bad ,it is bad ,but in certain moments of the race the car is quick ,and as there is no big difference in fuel loads this speed is original and no fluke.
If you have an inherent canceptual flaw that speed was just not possible.slow is slow.
i doubt the dd difusser is 2 seconds,the brawn had not just the ddd as a original idea.

i´m pretty sure we miss the boat completely at this time ..it has to be something with the tyres ,how Redbull and Mclaren have found to get more out of them ,for qualy.What ever they do ,it works.and it does not transfer to the race with full tank...

I think the car being quick at certain moments has to do with what brawn has tried to do to artificially dress it up. His fixes only work in these little moments. These could be hinged on certain fuel levels, tyre temperatures, ride heights and other factors that vary during the race.
For all we know, the slight change in camber as the car rises over a race could affect the grip, as an extreme example.

speed is not artificial in these races with no refueling .you still have the same cornerstones .In former years you had that variable of fuelloads ,but now?
The only real difference is tyre compound choice and those moments Merc was quick did have nothing to do with choice of compound...
so no the speed is original ,only the window of it is too small .

[autogyro]

I wonder how much real effort Schumaker is putting in to developing the car with the team and how much his involvement or not effects the other drivers.
I would guess managing this could be part of the answer.

[mach11]

I hope i can get an appropriate answer to a question that is bugging me all along....


Guys why are the mercs struggling for the past 3 races???

Schumacher was reported saying that they have a 3 year plan and they are working towards it. have they started work on next year's car??