European GP 2010 - Valencia

[Giblet]

I am not - I just wan to give You all background for the discussion for which I have no time :]

Yeah apprechaite the pics, very good! I dont think one person is to blame, but Webber is a donkey. He always seems to crash, and as one person said earlier, he even crashed on a push bike and broke his leg.

However I am sure Webber said "He braked 100M earlier than me" which would inturn mean that Webber braked at about 25M...

Most people aren't thinking all that clearly when their car has just flown upside down and backwards through the air, then smacked head on into a wall.

You should never take a drivers comments literally right after an accident. There is huge emotion and adrenaline pumping.

[feni_remmen]

Just for those stating that the the safety car should have picked up the leader... This would've resulted in a pretty straight forward win for Jenson Button. I've not done the maths but it seems that would be most likely. I'm not saying this would be good or bad. I'd be interested to know the time between the accident and the safety car, but I don't think the FIA could've done this much different. If the safety car picked up the leader, then Vettel would finish in 7th or 8th. I guess that would be fairer to Alonso, perhaps not to Vettel!

[Giblet]

And on when the safety car entered, they don't care about results, they care about getting out as quickly as possible and doing their job, which is guiding the cars around at a safe speed.

Calling it manipulation instead of bad luck is a bit over the top. Charlie Whiting, who releases the car, has proven time and time again that the safety of the drivers and everyone else is paramount to anything else, let alone the position of one driver in a race.

Safety first. Literally. Everything else is just bad luck, even if there was an error by the race director.

[jason.parker.86]

I am not - I just wan to give You all background for the discussion for which I have no time :]

Yeah apprechaite the pics, very good! I dont think one person is to blame, but Webber is a donkey. He always seems to crash, and as one person said earlier, he even crashed on a push bike and broke his leg.

However I am sure Webber said "He braked 100M earlier than me" which would inturn mean that Webber braked at about 25M...

Most people aren't thinking all that clearly when their car has just flown upside down and backwards through the air, then smacked head on into a wall.

You should never take a drivers comments literally right after an accident. There is huge emotion and adrenaline pumping.

Please, the guy has just had a shower. I think its discusting that people on here and in F1 think that a slower car should SLOW down for a McLaren, Ferrari, Red Bull. Its bullshit, they are all their spending millions of £'s on a racecar, but not allowed to race.

Im sorry but Webber did not have a hope in hells chance of making an overtaking opp stick in that lap, his best chance would have been to go on the inside and overtake their.

Eddie Jordan and Mike Gascoyne were right in what they was saying, EVERY drive has the right to defend their position when its for position!

HOWEVER; one has to arguee did the F-Duct Contribute to the fact he went flying in the air?

[roost89]

Webber said that Kovvy braked 100M before he would? But they crashed on the 100M marker?!?!? You telling me Webber brakes at 0M before the corner?

For sure before 100M mark - he hit Kovalainen somewhere between this pictures.

Crashed at the marker, however Kovalainen may have been breaking before then. Increasing the closing rate.

I heard it was 80m before MW would, 90 may be a good in-between But yeah, assuming HK break at say, 140m that leaves 60m before the corner where MW would break, That seems reasonable to me.

I'm trying to find some braking data from Brembo. However having trouble selecting Valencia on their site, I keep getting Bahrain =/ http://www.brembo.com/eng/formula1/2010/circuiti.htm see if you have more luck.

Best I can find it is this it's from last year. And the corner numbering is different However, most corners are clocked at 110+ metres for breaking distance.

This certainly muddies the water :S Are the breaking distances shorter this year? Maybe they are on the Red Bull.

Of course Webbo overestimated things, but they're braking around 75 meters there, so Kovi was indeed braking too early.

That seems a reasonable approximation.

[Giblet]

A shower, really?

I'm just saying, that he has not exactly had time to properly process everything yet. I don't know about you, but I have thought for sure I was going to die before, and the feeling does not fade quickly, even with a shower. You need to sleep it off.

Yo are screwed up over it for a long while, and taking a drivers comment with a grain of salt means exactly that, take it with a grain of salt. You need to sleep on it, and see video, before others perspective creeps in to your psyche.

A shower does nothing to calm you. Clean you, sure.

[siskue2005]

Alonso > "Manipulated race"
what a whinger
He was crying through out the race .... whining , bitching and complaining about others .
http://www.planetf1.com/news/3213/62327 ... ated-race-

SO, if a driver directly in front of him illegally overtakes safety car and looses nothing in result is Alonso supposed to be happy?

he got a drive through for that and propably lost the chance to win the race!
then what about Singapore 2008 where same thing happened with Roseberg...it was even more easier than this one...... and that same race was manipulated for Alonso by Flavio....Frankly Alonso should quit whining and stop using words like manipulation and BS like that....as he has got away with many cheating episodes in the past!

[piast9]

I think Alonso is too emotional about this situation. SC period is always someone's gain and someone's loss. However, in my opinion, the drive-through penalty should be announced much earlier, not about 15 laps after the illegal overtaking.

[timbo]

Calling it manipulation instead of bad luck is a bit over the top. Charlie Whiting, who releases the car, has proven time and time again that the safety of the drivers and everyone else is paramount to anything else, let alone the position of one driver in a race.

Safety first. Literally. Everything else is just bad luck, even if there was an error by the race director.

I think he refers to a very long time it took RC to decide there was an infrigement as a manipulation.

[feni_remmen]

As for the Webber incident, Mark managed it poorly and Lotus gained nothing by not telling their driver that the fastest way to finish the race was to get out of Webber's way. This is a waste of space discussing this. Webber was wrong, Kovalainen was wrong.

[timbo]

he got a drive through for that and propably lost the chance to win the race!

Yes, but it sure took them a looong time to take a decision.
And he still had a chance to win the race if Vettel had a problem, which happened this season.

[feni_remmen]

As for the F-Dust, unless Webber got his hand sucked into it, I don't see how it made any difference to this. Well maybe .5%.

[siskue2005]

I think Alonso is too emotional about this situation. SC period is always someone's gain and someone's loss. However, in my opinion, the drive-through penalty should be announced much earlier, not about 15 laps after the illegal overtaking.

you are right....FIA at times are really slow , like singapore 2008 , spa 2008 , Monaco 2010 etc
but crying over that is not a solution
he and his followers are whining about FIA manipulation

[jason.parker.86]

If he was using his F-Duct to gain on Kovvy, then surely his wing was stalled and therefore less rear downforce grip, causing the car to basically fly into the sunset when it lost traction with the track?

I read on earlier posts that stalling a diffuser could have simular effect, maybe thats what they are doin?

[feynman]

Alonso > "Manipulated race"
what a whinger
He was crying through out the race .... whining , bitching and complaining about others .
http://www.planetf1.com/news/3213/62327 ... ated-race-

SO, if a driver directly in front of him illegally overtakes safety car and looses nothing in result is Alonso supposed to be happy?

The Ferrari PR are squealing and twittering about races ruined, yada yada, how does Hamilton getting his penalty or otherwise materially ruin where Alonso would have emerged after his pitstop?

Yeah sure Hamilton, and new wing, would have been stuck behind Alonso, but that wouldn't help Alonso get past the crowd of cars that were still in his way to serious points. It just shows where his head is at - 2007, still? in 2010? Seriously? Starting to look foolish.

All this, the radio traffic and his petted-lip afterwards, it's clear that Alonso's head is still as fragile as it ever was.

That has been the form-card on Alonso since the start, fast enough, but mentally weak, anything goes wrong, and psychologically the wheels fall off.

Hamilton and McLaren if they are smart should be playing up on this weakness now it has been so publicly exposed. Keep noising Fernando up, quit the nicey-nice FOTA bollocks, go after him personally and watch him fall apart at the seams.

They should do themselves a favour, now they know they are still in his head, ratchet up the aggro and watch him pop.

Waaaaahmbulance on it's way.