European GP 2010 - Valencia

[komninosm]

So lets say you force all cars to run at Safety Car Vector times from the moment the SC board is out. It would penalise the the cars that have started a lap before the SC, just as it did today. It would also mean the SC wouldn't be needed!

Nice idea. I like it. It's more fair than only those near the accident zone are forced to go slow in a big track. Or how a SC picks people up and who gets to go to pits first. I remember when the pits got closed in SC periods some years ago, but that was abandoned because some cars were low on fuel and pitted and got penalties. Maybe now, with no refueling, they can bring that rule back? What do you all think?

[komninosm]

If he was using his F-Duct to gain on Kovvy, then surely his wing was stalled and therefore less rear downforce grip, causing the car to basically fly into the sunset when it lost traction with the track?

I read on earlier posts that stalling a diffuser could have simular effect, maybe thats what they are doin?

No. It doesn't work like that. First of all the impact of the F-duct is marginal. It's not a 100% removal of down-force from the rear wing. Also the way the car's nose was lifted of the ground created a lift from the body of the car. Any more or less pressure on the rear wing would simply have no effect on the lever-action that was going on. By that time the rear wing was also more or less in such a direction compared to the vector of motion/speed that it wasn't pushing down, but mostly up (and backwards).

[segedunum]

Stop arguing with me. I already told you I was done, and you still keep going.

You still keep arguing and you still can't deal with the topic at hand. If you don't want to discuss it then stop.

I disagree with you, deal with it.

I'm not interested who you disagree with - the reason why we're here is to explain why. You're still wrong because you can't deal with the topic at hand and consistently refuse to discuss it even though you comment on it. You think you can slide down the cracks and you'll be right. You aren't. Deal with it.

Have you noticed that this has now gone off-topic totally and you're talking about nothing?

[feni_remmen]

So lets say you force all cars to run at Safety Car Vector times from the moment the SC board is out. It would penalise the the cars that have started a lap before the SC, just as it did today. It would also mean the SC wouldn't be needed!

Nice idea. I like it. It's more fair than only those near the accident zone are forced to go slow in a big track. Or how a SC picks people up and who gets to go to pits first. I remember when the pits got closed in SC periods some years ago, but that was abandoned because some cars were low on fuel and pitted and got penalties. Maybe now, with no refueling, they can bring that rule back? What do you all think?

I think the unfortunate part of the safety car situation is most people (FIA /FOTA /Fans would prefer to see these controversies. Perhaps not so extreme, but it seems the safety car bunching the field is considered a bonus. I remember getting my hopes up when they started talking about vector times. The no pit under safety car seems like a good compromise solution, but you'll still get people who jag the right time to pit, like Redbull in Singapore 08.

[andartop]

Well at least the race was not as boring as the last couple of years.

Vettel proved once more he can win from pole position, still to prove he can actually overtake.

LH drove really well and might have had a chance to fight for the win had he not engaged himself once more in controversies. On the other hand, had he been up there and fighting with Vettel they might as well have taken each other out of the race, as they almost did in the first lap, so he might have actually benefited from the drive through penalty!

Alonso's frustration I can understand given the circumstances: had LH not hesitated so much being unsure what to do with the SC it's likely they could have both made it through before the SC crossed that line. As it was, Alonso was stuck behind and his race was ruined whereas he got to see LH overtaking the SC at the last minute and getting away with it, then taking an awful lot of time to get penalized and ending up in the same position. Anybody would be mad in Alonso's place, but still he should have been concentrating more on his race and let his team handle the incident.

Since there is no refuelling anymore why not go back to closing the pitlane when a SC is deployed?

With regards to the Webber-Kovi incident I think it looked more like Webbo's fault. I mean, he was so much quicker that he didn't really need to go for the slipstream once, let alone twice. In any case I think it's not a matter of putting the blame on someone but rather being grateful that no one got hurt. I was shocked to see MW just climb out of that wreck like nothing happened, well done to the FIA and Teams for car safety!

Well done to Kobayashi as well, not so much for the last couple of laps where I guess anyone with fresh tires would have been able to pull these moves out and make it stick, but for his performance overall, matching Lewis' pace and keeping the WDC behind him for almost the whole race!!!

Can't wait to find out the official results after half the field is under investigation!!! Has something like that happened before?

[Giblet]

Stop arguing with me. I already told you I was done, and you still keep going.

You still keep arguing and you still can't deal with the topic at hand. If you don't want to discuss it then stop.

I disagree with you, deal with it.

You're still wrong because you can't deal with the topic at hand and consistently refuse to discuss it even though you comment on it. You think you can slide down the cracks and you'll be right. You aren't. Deal with it.

Have you noticed that this has now gone off-topic totally and you're talking about nothing?

I don't care if I am wrong or right on little bit or what you have to say about anything anymore. I tried to take the high road, and end this discussion in disagreement. You seem to want to have the last word, but I just don't care about one little point of disagreement.

But since you can't let it go, it's now been reported, as you have left me no choice.

[siskue2005]

5 sec penatly for all the cars which speed up during SC in lap
Alonso moves up just 1 place IMO
and i think Roseberg also moves to 11th

Ferrari will be even more angry now
just visit their site

[zgred]

5-second penalties handed to nine drivers

The following drivers (with original race finishing positions shown) receive 5-second penalties:

Jenson Button (3rd), Rubens Barrichello (4th), Robert Kubica (5th), Adrian Sutil (6th), Sébastien Buemi (8th), Pedro de la Rosa (10th), Vitaly Petrov (11th), Vitantonio Liuzzi (13th) and Nico Hülkenberg (DNF).

[Miguel]

5 sec penatly for all the cars which speed up during SC in lap
Alonso moves up just 1 place IMO
and i think Roseberg also moves to 11th

Ferrari will be even more angry now
just visit their site

5 seconds? What a joke! This is even worse than no penalty! Why? Because we were all told in Monaco that the reason why Schumacher got a 20 second penalty was that there was no more lenient penalty. Oh, yes, there is. There is the brand new 5 seconds penalty. Isn't speeding under the safety car as big an offense as overtaking it? Was not hamilton awarded a drive through for that (albeit 20 minutes late)?

[PlatinumZealot]

5 sec penatly for all the cars which speed up during SC in lap
Alonso moves up just 1 place IMO
and i think Roseberg also moves to 11th

Ferrari will be even more angry now
just visit their site

5 seconds? What a joke! This is even worse than no penalty! Why? Because we were all told in Monaco that the reason why Schumacher got a 20 second penalty was that there was no more lenient penalty. Oh, yes, there is. There is the brand new 5 seconds penalty. Isn't speeding under the safety car as big an offense as overtaking it? Was not hamilton awarded a drive through for that (albeit 20 minutes late)?

How much was it last year in Japan? 20 seconds? 25? These Stewards I tell you.

[zgred]

Code: Select all

My quick estimation:


1	Vet	0
2	Ham	5
3	But	12,6
4	Bar	25,6
5	Kub	27,1
6	Sut	30,1
7	Kob	30,9
8	Alo	32,8
9	Bue	36,2
10	Ros	44,3
11	Mass	46,6
12	Dlr	47,4
13	Pet	48,2
14	Alg	48,2
15	Shu	48,2
16	Luzzi	50,8

[segedunum]

...

For example, back on topic would you care to go through how many incidents like this Webber has had over the years just so we can get a comparison?

[timbo]

Interesting

Code: Select all

The stewards may impose any one of three penalties on any driver involved in an Incident :
a) A drive-through penalty. The driver must enter the pit lane and re-join the race without stopping ;
b) A ten second time penalty. The driver must enter the pit lane, stop at his pit for at least ten seconds and then re-join the race.
c) a drop of any number of grid positions at the driver’s next Event.
However, should either of the penalties under a) and b) above be imposed during the last five laps, or after the end of a race, Article 16.4b) below will not apply and 20 seconds will be added to the elapsed race time of the driver concerned in the case of a) above and 30 seconds in the case of b).

It seems there's no such thing as 5 second penalty

[andartop]

Interesting

Code: Select all

The stewards may impose any one of three penalties on any driver involved in an Incident :
a) A drive-through penalty. The driver must enter the pit lane and re-join the race without stopping ;
b) A ten second time penalty. The driver must enter the pit lane, stop at his pit for at least ten seconds and then re-join the race.
c) a drop of any number of grid positions at the driver’s next Event.
However, should either of the penalties under a) and b) above be imposed during the last five laps, or after the end of a race, Article 16.4b) below will not apply and 20 seconds will be added to the elapsed race time of the driver concerned in the case of a) above and 30 seconds in the case of b).

It seems there's no such thing as 5 second penalty

Could have been worse; could have just been given a reprimand...

[timbo]

Interesting

Code: Select all

The stewards may impose any one of three penalties on any driver involved in an Incident :
a) A drive-through penalty. The driver must enter the pit lane and re-join the race without stopping ;
b) A ten second time penalty. The driver must enter the pit lane, stop at his pit for at least ten seconds and then re-join the race.
c) a drop of any number of grid positions at the driver’s next Event.
However, should either of the penalties under a) and b) above be imposed during the last five laps, or after the end of a race, Article 16.4b) below will not apply and 20 seconds will be added to the elapsed race time of the driver concerned in the case of a) above and 30 seconds in the case of b).

It seems there's no such thing as 5 second penalty

Could have been worse; could have just been given a reprimand...

It would be at least logical.
Absolutely agree with Schu in Monaco thing.