Mercedes GP MGP W01

[marcush.]

to me it is obvious the car is not that bad you cannot post second fastest time with a box of s...t...
they do not understand the tyres they admit.
so how would they understand the pirellis?
My view is they need Vasselon or someone from Bridgestone or both Bridgestone and michelin to really get on top of understanding tyres...
Is Symmonds a tyre specialist ???I found a lot of snippets in the web him commenting on tyre usage.. and Renault/Benetton/Toleman were indeed using about every tyre available in those years...starting with Pirelli..

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

There is one problem with ditching this years efforts and going in for 2011.
Pirelli and the teams have yet to agree on exactly what tyre specs they will have for 2011.
Brawn would be in the same boat as they are in now. The W01 Mercedes' inherent flaw is its weight distribution and tyre management. For whichever reason this happened Brawn was said to be unhappy with Bridgestones final tyre at this years winter tests.

Somthing to do with the stiffness of the tyre wall and how Mercedes overcompensated. Very technical stuff that I couldnt begin to fully understand.

Once everything is set in stone with the tyres and regs etc, then start afresh. Because the W01 isnt a bad car.

[MichaelW]

Someone posted some interesting informations at autosport

AMuS:

- all the knowledge from Canada about the tyres problems turned out to be worthless here, says Ross
- the data predicted an improvement of 0,5 sec from the update
- it takes 3-4 laps till the tyres are in the right operating window
- the initial plan was to bring the new and old config here to Valencia but it was dropped due to logistic reasons
- they had to fix some problems yesterday with the new rear, the exhaust burned off some bodywork
- Ross "that´s the price without testing"
- the alterations made sure that the full advantage of the new exhaust/diffusor couldn´t be used
- the advantage of the blown diffusor can be noticed mostly in slow to middle fast turns with regard to Silverstone, says Haug

BILD:

- the 288 page dossier about the tyres from Pirelli is already on the table of Ross Brawn´s desk "Now we can start properly"
- they work flat out on the new car from now on
- "officially" they continue to push for this year but that´s mainly PR for the Mercedes executives
- MGP wants Tombazis. Officially both parties (MGP/Ferrari) denied it but Ferrari is already fighting to keep him
- the working group, which is responsible for the tyres at the moment, will be enhanced for next years project

So it seems the tyre regs are finished and the teams have all the needed figures.

[ESPImperium]

The thing that Brawn had last year, at least for the first half of the year that was an asset was Jorg Zander as Technichal Director, a guy that is clearly single minded in car direction going on what he developed the BMW Sauber F1.07 into that Willy Rampf based and imroved on for the F1.08.

Personally, i think he and Ross Brawn had a conflict of personalities, Brawn is methodical and process based where Zander is more of a guy that is less process based and more radical in his thinking.

The team of Zander and Bigos was a simply awsome combination for the current era of F1, only Adrian Newey could come close last year.

The problem i think that Mercedes have is that they lack a single minded technichal director, something like Mike Gascgoine for example, the thing is that Ross Brawn i think likes more progressive people working with him.

I just hope that with the facilities and technichal know how that is there at Brackley they can get their act together before the end of the season and have a half decent year end, working towards a successful second season.

They are a team that is able to run at the sharp end and challange for race wins that lead to titles. The more teams at the sharp end of the grid is only good for F1 and its immage and ultimate success.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

The info on Jorg Zander is that he is a good engineer, but not a special one.
At a track day last year at the prodrive test circuit I chatted to a few of their engineers, and they were adamant that Zander is still and F1 grade engineer, but more of a Torro Rosso or Force India rather than Mclaren or Ferrari type.

Of course they arent Privy to any of the facts as nor are we. But it strikes me that him having shifted from Honda to williams to BMW back to Honda and now unemployed for the last 14 months means something.

Regards to Tombazis, Brawn has said he is "not interested". And from what I know Tombazis isnt exactly what Ferrari had hoped for either...their designs of the last 2 years testifies no?

[xpensive]

At the end of the day JET, Zander is an engineer, Brawn is not.

[timbo]

At the end of the day JET, Zander is an engineer, Brawn is not.

Well, he does not have a completed higher education or degree, but he received some formal training (unfinished) and has quite a bit of technical knowledge. He headed R&D department while being in Williams.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

100% correct.

Brawn adds little technically other than direction, he probably gets thaqt from his engineers too.
Point is Zander is not the Messiah, Mercedes need More than this.

I think Symmonds would be a good aquisition as would Gascoyne(laugh if you want but I think him to be quite talented)

[ESPImperium]

One un named designer that i think would do well at Brackley would be Pascal Vasselon the Ex-Toyota technichal director. From what i can gather, he is still at Colgne a couple of days a week, as he with about 50-70 staff are keeping the Toyota F1 race shop ticking over, seemingly looking at adoptiong the TF110 for the 2011 rules for a customer car if ART dont take over BMW Sauber, and for Plan B, sell Hispania for 2011 as they have been looking at that package for 2011 as well for one season.

Ideally he would be a good addition to the Mercedes operation. I cannot see Pat Symmonds getting into F1 again with the new "Strategic Personell" licences that the FIA will be starting to implement from 2011 as well.

[aral]

One un named designer that i think would do well at Brackley would be Pascal Vasselon the Ex-Toyota technichal director. From what i can gather, he is still at Colgne a couple of days a week, as he with about 50-70 staff are keeping the Toyota F1 race shop ticking over, seemingly looking at adoptiong the TF110 for the 2011 rules for a customer car if ART dont take over BMW Sauber, and for Plan B, sell Hispania for 2011 as they have been looking at that package for 2011 as well for one season.

Ideally he would be a good addition to the Mercedes operation. I cannot see Pat Symmonds getting into F1 again with the new "Strategic Personell" licences that the FIA will be starting to implement from 2011 as well.

I cannot see Toyota spending money trying to update their car, if it was even possible, for the 2011 rules. It would have to be able to accomodate KERS and have completely different aero!
But back to Merc. Does anyone know why Zander was dropped by Mercedes? It happened just at the time that Merc were in discussion with Brawn for a buy-out. Maybe Zander saw that resources would be curtailed.

[Morteza]

Toyota F1 was doing better and better every year and they were quite good with 3 podiums in 2009. It's a pity they're no longer in F1. Talking of Pascal Vasselon, I think it would be nice for Mercedes to bring him to their crew as last year nearly half of the team left the factory. I hope they will do something about the design for the next year because this year's car is a mixed bag! It sometimes does well but suddenly you see they are stuck in Q2 and can't be in Q3! They need to gather a group of talented and expert people for designing next year's car if they want to be at the front.

[ESPImperium]

One un named designer that i think would do well at Brackley would be Pascal Vasselon the Ex-Toyota technichal director. From what i can gather, he is still at Colgne a couple of days a week, as he with about 50-70 staff are keeping the Toyota F1 race shop ticking over, seemingly looking at adoptiong the TF110 for the 2011 rules for a customer car if ART dont take over BMW Sauber, and for Plan B, sell Hispania for 2011 as they have been looking at that package for 2011 as well for one season.

Ideally he would be a good addition to the Mercedes operation. I cannot see Pat Symmonds getting into F1 again with the new "Strategic Personell" licences that the FIA will be starting to implement from 2011 as well.

I cannot see Toyota spending money trying to update their car, if it was even possible, for the 2011 rules. It would have to be able to accomodate KERS and have completely different aero!
But back to Merc. Does anyone know why Zander was dropped by Mercedes? It happened just at the time that Merc were in discussion with Brawn for a buy-out. Maybe Zander saw that resources would be curtailed.

They arnt spending that big, its a small ammount, arround $10million, just for the diffuser as the solution they are selling would most likley be without KERS. And in that cost is the cost of keeping the factory ticking over on a small scale, with the wind tunnel and its CFD being used for about 90% for other programmes.

Personally, id like to have seen what the TF109 could have done with a Mercedes engine behind it last year, as its Toyota engine was rumored to be as much as 0.4 of a lap down on power, whitch is rumored to be arround 35-40hp to the Mercedes.

Jarno, Timo and Kimui would have had a quality car there i feel.

[marcush.]

I mentioned Vasselon some time ago.. and I could imagine Brawn is already knocking at his door .
Interestingly Toyota had Tyre problems not instantly solved when he come in....so he must have learned an awful lot when changing sides....but he should be one of the guys who really know about the problems encountered by Mercedes.

So the second one is Symmonds ..we see briatore ,why not Pat.. even if it is just on a consulting base..

Zander now:
http://www.speed-magazin.de/index.php?t ... &serie=mix

[xpensive]

At the end of the day JET, Zander is an engineer, Brawn is not.

Well, he does not have a completed higher education or degree, but he received some formal training (unfinished) and has quite a bit of technical knowledge. He headed R&D department while being in Williams.

He started out as a machinist for MrM at March long time ago, which might xplain a thing or two, while his work at Williams was more of a wnid-tunnel technician as I understand.

One helluva organizer with a heavy hand to get things done, but would he know where to begin if asked to design an F1 car, näääh...

[marcush.]

Byrne is nothing ...but one helluva F1 designer..

who said you need to have a formal training or a degree to be able to do things that work???

its not long ago that Dallara stated on the PTC website they even have less need for stress engineers since they use their products....maybe not the best example...

I remember Brunner being one guy not really at ease with numbers..he had even in his ATS/Rial times a guy (Frison ) who did all the calculations for him..
Still designed some decent cars ...Barnard had constant urge to throw up when he had to work on what Brunner had left ...but he was not able to come up with something a lot more efficient when he finally did all Barnard designs..and thats not even accounting for the money spent..

so we can state it is surely helpful to have studied and have earned a degree ,but if you are genius you will not need that it will come to you as you dig in deeper and deeper and not stop asking questions and you have the burning passion for what you are doing.