Mercedes GP MGP W01

[timbo]

I think in Valencia they had setup problem on top of their other problems too, almost every other guy improved on their practice time, but they only found a couple tenths at best.

[autogyro]

I still think it is simply that the team is not working right.
Could it be that there are some within the team who are to over awed by Schumaker.
He has shown that competitive laps can be wrung from the Merc even with its obvious technical problems and he does seem to have at least most of his driving ability.
Ross should maybe take him down a peg or two and remind him just what he is there for.
He also needs a hungrier team mate.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

I think the problem is exacerbated exactly because of the tyres.

What is the one thing you use harder than any other when pushing on quali lap, or quick stints? Tyres
So its ok at 98% but the moment you need extra and push the car to its limit, they tyre just doesnt want to know. Both in terms of GRIP and WEAR.
Its why Brawn is desperately looking for more downforce points.

Rosberg and Schumi are both driving withing themselves protecting the tyres during stints so as not to chew them up quickly and fall off a cliff face in terms of lap time.
Its totally the opposite of what Schumacher does naturally. And it peeves me off to hear so called experts saying hes lost it because Hamilton or Alonso in this car would struggle just as much!

[NewtonMeter]

And it peeves me off to hear so called experts saying hes lost it because Hamilton or Alonso in this car would struggle just as much!

Finally! The voice of reason!
=D>

[rich1701]

Rosberg and Schumi are both driving withing themselves protecting the tyres during stints so as not to chew them up quickly and fall off a cliff face in terms of lap time.
Its totally the opposite of what Schumacher does naturally...

Yes I agree 100%! I think that is ONE of the reasons why in 1994 when refuelling was introduced Schumacher suddenly took off as a WDC winning driver.

[myurr]

And it peeves me off to hear so called experts saying hes lost it because Hamilton or Alonso in this car would struggle just as much!

Finally! The voice of reason!
=D>

If true then you are suggesting that Rosberg would be the better driver to have in the car than either Alonso or Hamilton, something which I don't think is true.

Schumacher is clearly not driving at his peak. Some of that is down to rustiness from his time away, some of it is down to the car being a bit of a dog, and some of it is just him getting on a bit. He'll improve and with the right car would still be able to win the odd race, but I just don't think he's ever going to be able to compete one on one against a driver like Hamilton should they have equal machinery, who is now approaching his peak. This is not a reflection on Schumacher's previous ability (even though I do not believe him to be as legendary as his record would suggest, top 10 of all time but not my number 1) it merely reflects the fact that sports stars will have a peak where the benefits of having a combination of youth and experience will be at their greatest. Hamilton is close to that peak and on the ascension, whilst Schumacher is beyond that peak and on the downward slope (no matter how shallow) on the other side.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

What Im suggesting is Rosberg has struggled just as much.

And the reasoning is quite simple.
2 podiums in rain affected races dont paint over the cracks....

[Newms]

I Hope Merc sort out there Tyre issues come Belguim! Then we wil lsee the old MS! He's still the old MS and anyone who thinks different is a fool. He proved he's the old MS by overtaking Alonso in Monnaco in the manner he did

[gridwalker]

He proved he's the old MS by overtaking Alonso in Monnaco in the manner he did

More's the pity.

[marcush.]

I think autogyro is at least partly right.

The key is they have yet to dig deep into everything to unearth the missing pieces to their puzzle .Now is the time for everyone to really really find out what does miss really.

As we have seen in asingle lap into the grid by Schumacher ..he is able to generate heat in the rear tyres ...so the temps are not the problem.

[ringo]

What i find interesting is that certain teams have characteristic faults, that tend to be hard to get rid of even as time passes and key personel come and go. This tyre issue is nothing new to honda, who have been making crap cars bar the 2004 bar and the Brawn.
Last year Button had tyre issues with the Brawn, they were just lucky the car was really fast so compromises could be made, refueling also meant these compromises wont have a big effect since the car is never at 2 extremes.
The Brawn had some pretty crazy camber angles on the rears last year, in Hungary, to combat their heating issues.

Could it be that the W01 was set up with a certain camber to work the tyres more, but this camber only exists at a range of ride heights?
Maybe when the car is in quali trim and light, the suspension droops and camber is less aggressive, which affects their quali pace so far.
Under heavy fuel, for the start, the suspension is compressed and the camber is too high, not in the sweet spot to solve the grip balance and heating issue. However there could be a time when the ride height is just right and the car works and we get those fast sector times that arbitrarily come up for Mercedes in the race.
This sweet and sour behavior could be put at the feet of the engineering team. The car may have been designed myopically, and maybe there are certain poor engineering practices at honda that have persisted throughout the years subliminally influencing every car they design.

I feel really sorry for both drivers. As the season progresses the W01's inabilty to develope further will be emphasized by teams like Williams and Force India making up the stagger and eventually surpassing them.

[twoshots]

I believe Mercedes' problems in Valencia were not down to a poor car, in fact their running in FP1 & 2 was quite good, particularly on the harder tyres. Running an untested update which pointed hot exhaust gases at structural components of the car was probably, in hindsight, not a good move. I'm sure this will be fixed come Silverstone. Their car is improving how fast or much relative to others is just impossible to gauge until they actually run with a successful update...

[marcush.]

I think Mercedes could solve the problem very easily :
build in elastokinematics for the qualy.
you just have to conceive a system that holds the upperand lower wishbones in a semirigid /elastic position during qualifying allowing for enough wheelmovement under load to work the tyres sufficiently without having full fuelload
After qualy a quick check reveals some bolts and nuts that need tightening and the system is back to full rigid and the tyres hold up for the race.

as far as I understand ,some teams deliberately sacrifice stiffness of their suspension in camber to work the tyre harder ,but do not allow for any loss in stiffness in toe ,presumably to avoid instability under braking .

[PlatinumZealot]

The engineers are the problem.

[Pierce89]

I Hope Merc sort out there Tyre issues come Belguim! Then we wil lsee the old MS! He's still the old MS and anyone who thinks different is a fool. He proved he's the old MS by overtaking Alonso in Monnaco in the manner he did

WOW he overtook a car that wasn't defending because the SC was out. IF that was the old Shumi then he wasn't as good as I thought he was. The man deserves more credit than that. He's past his prime so don't tarnish his accomplishments by comparing the real Ferrari Shumi to this impostor.