Technical Regulations for 2009-2015

[autogyro]

It is good to see they are looking again at this silly moveable rear wing overtake idea.
If allowed to go ahead it will make a laughing stock of F1.
The press will rename the sport as an arcade game.
I see it as a desperate move to regain some spectator interest while at the same time avoiding the real cause which is excesive downforce.
I just hope that the guts to make changes can be found before the new powertrain regulations come in.
Reduced downforce needs to be brought in at the same time as a decently balanced controlled fuel formula. At least 50 percent reduction in DF and a fuel limit on races that forces efficiency development both on powertrains including KERS and in aero with a move to streamlining rather than DF.

[wesley123]

Well, why reducing downforce? IO mwean they reduced dowforce with some 30 percent and it didnt actuall matter at all.

Also that movable rear wing is a stupid idea, it isnt real overtaking lol, as when you are one second behind you can get an 15km/h boost, doesnt matter at all as you will not be able to defend your position at all. It is the same as saying that the guy in fornt of yuo has to slow down to let you poass

[Ogami musashi]

Let autogyro in his dreams...


The world is circled by evil aerodynamics men that want to make everything worse.


Or of course you could be in reality and realize the level of downforce has nothing to do with it...or even realize that next year the levels of downforce will drop severly so that the moveable wing is certainly not a thing to hide "the real problem"...but well you can also live in aerodynamics paranoia..

[WhiteBlue]

I love racing under the lights

+1

They did a super job of it in Singapore. It adds an interesting feature to an otherwise dull street race.

[WhiteBlue]

You could ... even realize that next year the levels of downforce will drop severly.

On paper! But how often have we seen those fantasy figures to discover that the down force is mostly recovered by other means. Next year they will find something else like using higher angle of attack or something else.

[andrew]

The Singapore race is just a giant computer game. Terrible circuit with an annoying gimmick.

As for moveable rear wings? The moveable front wings were bad enough!

[wesley123]

You could ... even realize that next year the levels of downforce will drop severly.

On paper! But how often have we seen those fantasy figures to discover that the down force is mostly recovered by other means. Next year they will find something else like using higher angle of attack or something else.

True, in LMP same happened, with the smaller rear wing, it was easily resolved by huge rear gurneys and higher angle of attack, anf afterall the cars even went faster

[autogyro]

Back to the misleading statement that the cars went faster with higher DF.
The lap times may go down because of higher cornering speeds that prevent overtaking but strait line speed does not go up with everything else equal and higher DF.
Just the usual aero con statement.
It takes higher fuel use to generate DF. This is against the declared FOTA aim to reduce fuel use and increase efficiency.

[Scotracer]

Back to the misleading statement that the cars went faster with higher DF.
The lap times may go down because of higher cornering speeds that prevent overtaking but strait line speed does not go up with everything else equal and higher DF.
Just the usual aero con statement.
It takes higher fuel use to generate DF. This is against the declared FOTA aim to reduce fuel use and increase efficiency.

And back to your misleading use of the word 'faster'. Why do you think it's called 'Fastest lap'? That's the quickest time taken to cover the distance (therefore highest average speed). The 'Quickest lap' would be the one with the highest top speed.

I'd say for a racing car, having the highest average speed is the goal. Ergo downforce makes it faster.

[Ogami musashi]

Back to the misleading statement that the cars went faster with higher DF.
The lap times may go down because of higher cornering speeds that prevent overtaking but strait line speed does not go up with everything else equal and higher DF.
Just the usual aero con statement.
It takes higher fuel use to generate DF. This is against the declared FOTA aim to reduce fuel use and increase efficiency.

What you fail to realize is that the fact Dowforce increaseDDDDD drag is not downforce increaseSSSSSS drag.

Sure, infinite L/D ratio do not exist...but once again, there's a quantity called the finess (yes the L/D ratio) and it is not there for looking cool, it has a physical meaning...

And if you and WB dare to tell me "you can't have DF with low drag" in addition to repeat for the billionth time that we have means to cut drag at least in half (Ground effects, wider wings) i will laugh out loud when you'll post again all you faith about engine consuming half the fuel for the same power as F1 wants it.

Stop your so called "safety-environmental-whatever" arguments about the need to cut DF to a level that some guys decided one day, i bet you wouldn't mind having cars with the same lap time as now if DF wasn't there. Grippy tyres with high rolling resistance, grip lost at the slightest slip angle overshoot, 400km/h straight line speed to take off in the event of a webber like collision...all of that you wouldn't mind at all.


I will surprise you...i don't want endless DF neither..current Cut-claim back system is fine with me..and this year the cars can follow each other close enough to overtake...

[autogyro]

Here we go again a complete lack of the fundamentals.
No drag with DF realy!!!!
Excess strait line speed with reduced DF realy!!!! In a fuel limited formula, I dont think so!!!
The LD ratio is worked at present, within the ... aero nerds forced demands for higher DF with no restrictions.
It has nothing whatsoever to do with the latest FOTA statement that confirms their push for increased FUEL efficiency.
Any increases in DF that are designed within such a demand will be counter productive within the new regs, if they increase drag beyond the capability of finishing the race on a set amount of fuel. Of course designers will still try to make the most of the lift drag ratio within this but it will be within a defined mathematical conclusion as to how much DF is acceptable to meet the regulations and finish the race.
Fuel efficiency 1 aero DF nil.

[Ogami musashi]

Sorry but it gets me so heated.
DF comes with drag.
High DF has dominated F1 for far to long at the expense of all other technologies.

I have nothing more to say. If you can't read my post and understand them then continue in your world...


Ignore physics, that's okay; Physics do not apply for aeros, but for engine yes, yeah cool!

[strad]

Quickest and fastest are not necessarily the same thing..I can be quicker without being faster

[strad]

A fuel limit will just lead us back to the days of economy runs..No Good!!! .. Bad Idea!!!!!!

[aral]

Sorry but it gets me so heated.
DF comes with drag.
High DF has dominated F1 for far to long at the expense of all other technologies.

I know that it is not a great analogy, but the Brabham hoover car, had high downforce with little drag. So it is possible. And I would imagine that there are other ways to achieve the same effect