Technical Regulations for 2009-2015

[xpensive]

I think what it boils down to is what do you wish F1 to be, if the HRT's of this world is your answer, then go spec as far as possible, but if you want to see diversity and manufaturers around, you have to give slack for a certain amount of creativity and development.

Badging 2.4 spec engines and competing with look-alike chassis in different colors, is that it? Nascar has more diversity.

[machin]

I think what it boils down to is what do you wish F1 to be

I still maintain that for F1 to remain the pinnacle it has to cater for what the majority of fans want:- Fast cars with lots of overtaking, and what the money-bringers (the manufaturers) want; empthasis on propulsion development, not high downforce development... As Wesley says; if the teams don't like that they an go elsewhere... plenty of other teams would take their place.... However the big teams are assoiated with manufacturers.. so they'd prefer it, and the small teams costs would decrease as their aero development requirements go down and they buy in the propulsion system (hopefully at an FIA capped-price), so they'd like it too..... everyone's happy (except the aero guys... sorry!)

[wesley123]

I think what it boils down to is what do you wish F1 to be, if the HRT's of this world is your answer, then go spec as far as possible, but if you want to see diversity and manufaturers around, you have to give slack for a certain amount of creativity and development.

That is completely true

Badging 2.4 spec engines and competing with look-alike chassis in different colors, is that it? Nascar has more diversity.

And i can agree with that too, that is the thing that bothers me.

I can actually live with standardized parts, as long as they arent visiblew for the fans, im sure people would rather watch indycar or nascar if they see 26 similair F1 cars on the grid. For example if you standardize suspension, brakes, rims, crash structures and all that rubish then you will leave room for anything, but can still keep speeds down, but at the same time can keep the cornering speeds up.

Also an standardised floor can be a good idea, if you make use of underbody tunnels for example, let those start soon and end soon, then you will have much more neutral downforce. Then you can simply allow smaller rea wings and use them as underbody extensions, then we can both be happy. Also with an easy meganism you can allow the flap to go to an 90 degree(or higher angle) wich doesnt even need electronics in any way.

As long as noticable parts can be developped i'm cool with the rest.

[machin]

In my concept the nose, tub, side pods and wing endplates and wings would distinguish the different cars... I've only made the underfloor a "spec" part... and as you can't really see the underfloor (except the diffuser section) then I think the majority of fans would be OK with that...

an standardised floor can be a good idea, if you make use of underbody tunnels for example, let those start soon and end soon, then you will have much more neutral downforce. Then you can simply allow smaller rea wings and use them as underbody extensions.... .....As long as noticable parts can be developped i'm cool with the rest.

I knew you'd come around!

[autogyro]

I think what it boils down to is what do you wish F1 to be

I still maintain that for F1 to remain the pinnacle it has to cater for what the majority of fans want:- Fast cars with lots of overtaking, and what the money-bringers (the manufaturers) want; empthasis on propulsion development, not high downforce development... As Wesley says; if the teams don't like that they an go elsewhere... plenty of other teams would take their place.... However the big teams are assoiated with manufacturers.. so they'd prefer it, and the small teams costs would decrease as their aero development requirements go down and they buy in the propulsion system (hopefully at an FIA capped-price), so they'd like it too..... everyone's happy (except the aero guys... sorry!)

I am absolutely certain that the majority of fans do not know what they want.
They watch F1 on TV and only two words apply, excitement and spectacle.
TV viewers cannot experience either the awesome noise or the visualy staggering cornering speeds. These two factors are only important to those who attend actual races and these people are a small percentage of the viewing public.

By far the most important thing is the way F1 is understood and reported in the media and the effect this has on the financial returns for the sponsers.
Without a positive response that is in balance with current perceived values, F1 can only fail.
The world revolution in energy (that few have yet recognised), is starting to drive all aspects of the worlds economies and social structures. F1 must achieve regulations and commercial partnerships that reflect these changes if it is to continue into the future. The motor industries are beginning to recognise these inevitable changes and road car technology is changing radicaly. The same thing will happen in motor sport and in F1 it has to be first to leed the way, otherwise it will be seen to be obsolete.

[rjsa]

Also an standardised floor can be a good idea, if you make use of underbody tunnels for example, let those start soon and end soon, then you will have much more neutral downforce.

I've been saying this forever...

[rjsa]

They're leaving because the bit they care about (engines and power train) is currently fixed at old technology.. so nothing to promote, whilst the bit they don't care about (high downforce aero developement) has the biggest significance... My proposal frees up the propulsion system whilst limiting the aero developement... thereby putting the empthasis on propulsion systems; just what the manufacturers want.

They *LEFT* because they dumped gazillion of dollars and didn't get WCC/WDC level. Then 2008/9 loan crisis gave them the perfect excuse. The ones which did get top drawer stayed. Renault left we all know why, but migh as well be back soon enough. Mercedes is there yet and pretty happy.

There are no good deeds on F1, it's about money and monday moring news papers.

[machin]

There are no good deeds on F1, it's about money and monday moring news papers.

Indeed... why else would they do it? If they can win then that's good publicity... and that means they sell road cars. If they can win, and show that the technology that they used to win also goes into their road cars then that is very good publicity... and that means they'll sell more road cars... that's why the manufacturers want the propulsion/power train regs to be freed up...

Look at what Audi are doing with their Le Mans program.. they never miss an opportunity to say how the Diesel enigne they use at Le Mans features technology that feeds back into their road car devision.

[machin]

They watch F1 on TV and only two words apply, excitement and spectacle.
TV viewers cannot experience either the awesome noise or the visualy staggering cornering speeds.

The noise is awesome, but will soon be legislated out by health and safety anyway, so hardly worth discussing -I know this first hand from watching Qualifying at Monaco without ear-plugs... I wore them for the race!

Cornering speeds is an interesting one.. its not easy to see on TV, and I agree it could probably be lowered without any loss of visual impact.. HOWEVER the lap times would come down and what F1 can't afford is not to be the pinnacle of racing -i.e. lowest lap times... the media would have a field day if it was too slow, and that would be bad for F1.

So that leaves excitement and spectacle... in the eyes of the majority this basically means lots of overtaking; the fan surveys always point to more overtaking being top of the priorities (I know us geeks will say other things, but its always important to keep your target audience happy, and unfortunately we don't make the majority so we're not the target audience...).

[rjsa]

The noise is awesome, but will soon be legislated out by health and safety anyway, so hardly worth discussing -I know this first hand from watching Qualifying at Monaco without ear-plugs... I wore them for the race!

They might as well ban rock concerts altogether. I don't think so.

Road relevance is a side effect of F1 not the intent. Road cars have covered wheels and 99.99% of them produce lift, not downforce. So more than half the budget goes on non relevant research anyway.

[machin]

Road relevance is a side effect of F1 not the intent.

That's true... but the manufacturer's are crying out for road-relevant propulsion systems otherwise they're threatening to pull out.. if they all pull out then we don't have F1 anymore or maybe we would but it would have one engine supplier (i.e. a spec engine)...

The upshot is that if we want F1 to be the pinnacle of technology with lots of different engine manufacturers then the FIA need to increase the road relevance....

[rjsa]

Manufacturers are overrated.

Petronas, Vodafone, Philip Morris are the ones that matter.

EDIT: I was all for the relevance and good intentions before. It's just that age got me too cynic to believe in such fairy tales.

[strad]

You really have to be kidding with all this talk of spec cars..We have many spec series,,we don't need another.
I don't understand how anyone that loves F1 could want to dumb it down or make it any more of a spec series than it already is. In fact that is a major part of what's wrong with F1,,if indeed you think anything is wrong with the sport.
Half the rules should go out the window. We need designers breaking new ground and pushing the envelope not cars designed by the rules makers.
And I agree that the presence of Manufacturers is overrated.
I think many here have only followed F1 in the post Ecclestone era and therefore only know what Bernie turned it into...Not all Bad...but not all Good either

[aral]

They're leaving because the bit they care about (engines and power train) is currently fixed at old technology.. so nothing to promote, whilst the bit they don't care about (high downforce aero developement) has the biggest significance... My proposal frees up the propulsion system whilst limiting the aero developement... thereby putting the empthasis on propulsion systems; just what the manufacturers want.

Mercedes is there yet and pretty happy.

quote]
I dont think hat Merc ARE happy. There was a board meeting last week, where there was a lot of argument about their continued involvement, due to their lack of return. Watch this space!!

[rjsa]

That has more to do with high expectations and bad performace than anything else. They bought a WCC, hired a 7xWDC and can't manage a podium.