Secret to Red Bull's Q3 Pace - Engine Mapping

[mep]

xpensive for you:



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Part of the gases go into the diff rest goes around it and seals it against the tires like describet here:

http://scarbsf1.wordpress.com/2010/06/2 ... diffusers/

[segedunum]

Not saying that this explanation is the right one, merely that your explanation right or wrong does not cover the subject of this thread - namely Red Bull's Q3 pace.

I've seen no evidence that this discrepancy exists.

Teams never show their full speed in qualifying until pole position is at stake, and Red Bull is no exception. As for the race, Red Bull have proved that they still have a sizeable performance advantage but people are mistakenly latching on to how close other teams look relative to qualifying. What you're forgetting is that races are an endurance discipline - fuel has to be managed so cars can finish the race, engines are routinely turned down as well as parts like gearboxes that have to last several races. You simply don't see a true reflection of how fast a car is and how much a team has in hand in a race because they don't go anywhere near flat out for the full race distance. Mark Webber could have easily been well over half a minute down the road at Barcelona and goodness knows how far at Monaco, but races are all about doing just enough to keep your head above water and little more.

[Richard]

I can see three routes:

[autogyro]

blue is air coming from under the floor, red goes through upper deck, orange goes to the sides.

+1 That has got to be close ringo
Damn clever and difficult for other teams to fine tune across the full operating range.

[xpensive]

Thanks mep, surely I'm not the only one happy to have this xplained, though I have problems to see the point in all this.

What about the little duct just ahead of the rearwheel, where is that taking the high static-pressure air?

[ringo]

You know the funny thing is, looking at the mclaren and ferrari i would be inclined to the idea of it being a duct. It was accepted that the mac and ferrari duct put more air into the ddd. However looking on the redbull, it's hard to see how it would snake all the way to the ddd here, while being so flat.

Especially knowing that there is already a hole in the ddd to add exhaust air, why would this little one be here in front the wheel?

Maybe it's a brake caliper duct, tunneling in the floor then opening up to the face of the inside of the wheel. Placed in the wheel's silhouette where it has a redundant drag penalty. Having this here would mean the main brake duct's size could be reduced.

Another crazy idea from that duct opening to the wheel inside is an air sheet to protect the wheel or body work from excessive heat. Most turbo machinery rout some compressor air into the turbine blades to protect them.


maybe this is what RB is doing.

[Robbobnob]

Not saying that this explanation is the right one, merely that your explanation right or wrong does not cover the subject of this thread - namely Red Bull's Q3 pace.

I've seen no evidence that this discrepancy exists.

Teams never show their full speed in qualifying until pole position is at stake, and Red Bull is no exception. As for the race, Red Bull have proved that they still have a sizeable performance advantage but people are mistakenly latching on to how close other teams look relative to qualifying. What you're forgetting is that races are an endurance discipline - fuel has to be managed so cars can finish the race, engines are routinely turned down as well as parts like gearboxes that have to last several races. You simply don't see a true reflection of how fast a car is and how much a team has in hand in a race because they don't go anywhere near flat out for the full race distance. Mark Webber could have easily been well over half a minute down the road at Barcelona and goodness knows how far at Monaco, but races are all about doing just enough to keep your head above water and little more.

I totally agree. It seems to me that The Red Bull Car is more suited to a full speed lap rather than race pace, though the current races have been less suited to the car as admitted by Horner and the team, i feel that perhaps their qualifying pace is closer to the threshold where the car performs rather than race pace of recently?

Quick Side note Vettel's New Helmet this weekend looks sharp!!!

[mep]

What about the little duct just ahead of the rearwheel, where is that taking the high static-pressure air?

I think it just guides the air around the wheel to reduce drag slightly.
Not that special.

I am more impressed by their suspension. On the pic you clearly see the advantage of a pullrod susp. You can get both wishbones higher and still have a good pullrod angle. So you make room free for your diff and air stream. Furthermore your bodywork can be really low. With a pushrod susp. it's not good to rise your lower wishbone that high.

[autogyro]

You know the funny thing is, looking at the mclaren and ferrari i would be inclined to the idea of it being a duct. It was accepted that the mac and ferrari duct put more air into the ddd. However looking on the redbull, it's hard to see how it would snake all the way to the ddd here, while being so flat.

Especially knowing that there is already a hole in the ddd to add exhaust air, why would this little one be here in front the wheel?

Maybe it's a brake caliper duct, tunneling in the floor then opening up to the face of the inside of the wheel. Placed in the wheel's silhouette where it has a redundant drag penalty. Having this here would mean the main brake duct's size could be reduced.

Another crazy idea from that duct opening to the wheel inside is an air sheet to protect the wheel or body work from excessive heat. Most turbo machinery rout some compressor air into the turbine blades to protect them.


maybe this is what RB is doing.

I like the air sheet idea. If they are not doing this they should be.

[casper]

These are called called turbine blade weep holes. The passage of air through the turbine removes the heat generated in the compressor section of a turbine engine. It is difficult to imagine though if weep holes are inside the carbon fiber floor/deck because the weep holes will create a longitudinal weak section of the the CF plates.

[mcdenife]

@Casper,

do you mean the turbine rather than the compressor section?

[xpensive]

What about the little duct just ahead of the rearwheel, where is that taking the high static-pressure air?

I think it just guides the air around the wheel to reduce drag slightly.
Not that special.

I doubt that very much mep, If you wish to guiide air around the rear wheel in any significant way, you would need a little more than that me thinks. A mystery however, it sure looks like a duct of sorts but to what purpose, scarbs?

[ringo]

Well it's a hole in the floor, but why?
It's more like an air curtain. Well it's not to protect from heat, but maybe to contain the low pressure under the floor?

[Mystery Steve]

These are called called turbine blade weep holes. The passage of air through the turbine removes the heat generated in the compressor section of a turbine engine.

I think you're on the right track here, but the wording is a bit off? Turbine blades are cooled using a method called surface film cooling. The efficiency of a turbine engine can be improved by increasing the temperature of the gases exiting the combustion section (more temperature equals more pressure, which means more available work performed by the turbine to drive the compressor). However, if it is allowed, the combustion gas heat can far exceed the structural capability of most materials suitable for the turbine blades, so some of the "cool" air is bleed from the compressor and bypasses the combustion section. This "cool" air (on the order of hundreds of degrees... use the units of your choosing) bleeds out of the holes in the turbine blade and forms a boundary layer of cool air so that the turbine blades do not overheat and fail.

Personally, I think this method would be a bit overkill for the floor of the RB6. As already stated, it is not a good idea to poke several holes in CF laminate, unless you aren't worried about delamination. This method also has the added complexity of where to get the bleed air from. The simpler solution is to use a shield constructed of either a reflective or insulating material. From the pictures it looks like the RB6 uses the latter. The photo posted by Ringo directly above mine shows a dull black piece bolted on the floor leading from the exhaust outlet to the diffuser scoop. I would imagine this is probably ceramic-coated or uses a similar material to insulate from heat.

[xpensive]

@mep. interesting thought there.

The original idea by John Barnard with the "canard wings" on the MP4-someting in the 80s was to create downforce by utilizing the difference in air speed under the car (high) and the speed ahead of the rear wheels (low), but what the heck is that duct doing?

Increasing airspeed under the canards just ahead of the wheels?