Mercedes GP MGP W01

[NewtonMeter]

Ok well. I'd rather they be where they are after P1 and descent in the race than vice versa.

Early days...
[-o<

[dren]

I am guessing they are still having problems with the blown rear. That and their never ending tire issues.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

http://formula-one.speedtv.com/article/ ... iki-lauda/

[dren]

Yeah, I read that earlier. I don't doubt it. The Honda/BAR cars and the Brawn had updates that sent the car backwards around this time of the season. I suspect the issues the car had initially with weight distribution also have something to do with their modeling software and simulations. Although their cars have also been typically quick out of the box set-up wise relative to the cars ultimate performance. Things will be interesting with the new tire supplier next year.

So is the modeling software suspect or the engineers gathering and inputting the data?

[marcush.]

simulation of what ?
..their tyre modeling does not work ..this seems obvious
And obviously knowing this they still are unable to predict in which way things will swing ,bearing in mind they now surely know the deficiencies....
So not the time for numbers crunching 2 times crap does not result in a good result the pain must be imense but I´m sure they´d learn more if they just collected as much real world data as possible and try to find the flaws of their modelling.
If this would result in worse qualy ? I don´t think so .I would at least have Schumacher try weird things ..he has not half a chance to win the pot ,so why not let him and his boys go out and dig for gold in this situation..if they really find something useful ,they might drag themselves out of this .

this modelling shortcomming would at least explain why they had a similar issue last year but at least back then they
had some conditions where everything worked perfectly.
now it seems they have trimmed down that window considerably and are still reducing it in size to find some performance...

[BreezyRacer]

I think we had the Lauda conversation here about a hundred pages ago. Maybe it was in another car post though .. in any case it's nothing new. As soon as you start producing parts/changes that don't work or make things worse you have to question the whole infrastructure of the tram's tools .. wind tunnel calibrations, CFD assumptions, etc.

It seems this whole team was built on it's double deck diffuser loophole and Merc bought into it, hook line and sinker. It is especially interesting that Merc have the strongest motors on the grid yet their own car is dog slow with it.

[dren]

Simulations of car performance. They have come up short in real world performance with their updates compared to what they expected with simulations. I am sure tire modeling has a lot to do with this, but it's not likely the only culprit.

The modeling software may be flawed, the way they aquire data may be flawed, the way they interpret the data may be flawed. Or it could be all of the above.

[autogyro]

I would have to disagree.
I do not think there are many things within the team that are flawed.
This year the regulations have made major reductions to testing and other work and Merc is working with a very reduced staff.
I would guess that they are well aware of the problems but unable to apply enough testing and budget to deal with them effectively.

[dren]

I would have to disagree.
I do not think there are many things within the team that are flawed.
This year the regulations have made major reductions to testing and other work and Merc is working with a very reduced staff.
I would guess that they are well aware of the problems but unable to apply enough testing and budget to deal with them effectively.

I think if they didn't have the alleged design flaws, there wouldn't be as many problems to deal with ie weight distribution, upgrades not working as planned, etc.

[BreezyRacer]

I would have to disagree.
I do not think there are many things within the team that are flawed.
This year the regulations have made major reductions to testing and other work and Merc is working with a very reduced staff.
I would guess that they are well aware of the problems but unable to apply enough testing and budget to deal with them effectively.

All of the teams have limited/no real world testing. RB can tell, to the tenth of a second, how their upgrades will do and aside from the Fduct all of their changes stick. That hasn't happened ONCE with Merc.

None of this bodes well for building a 2011 car from this team. A new car is not the answer. The way the design and build a new car .. that's where the problem is and will continue to be.

[vealio]

lol, anyone seen Fry at BBC? Now he declared the blown diffusor is useless and they should have stayed with their old exhaust solution =D>
It seems the team is just lost. All the things they copied from others (F-Duct, exhaust...) turned out to be a disaster and their own things (Airbox, wheelbase) didn´t work either.

[Ganxxta]

What I don't understand is Mercedes brought some guys from McLaren to MGP, didn't they?
So last year McLarens car was crap at the beginning of the season but they developed it to win races.
So the former McLaren guys must have some knowledge how to find solutions for problems, or at least they could try the things McLaren tried last year (flowviz at race weekends etc.)...

But nothing of this happens, they try to copy everything without fully understanding of their original car.

[BreezyRacer]

Maybe the former McLaren guys are the ones responsible for the crappy car at the beginning of the season?

Seriously many of these designers are quite good in their own right but if the tools they rely on are off (wind tunnels, CFD, etc) the results will suck.

[marcush.]

Maybe the former McLaren guys are the ones responsible for the crappy car at the beginning of the season?

Seriously many of these designers are quite good in their own right but if the tools they rely on are off (wind tunnels, CFD, etc) the results will suck.

working in the automotive industry in an area were aero and aero simulation is part of the game Ican only state that from what i have seen predictions are quite cloudy
as long as there is nothing real to test ,in words: the real thing on the road.
As a supplier it is always surprising and frustrating that requirements are obviously not based on calculations but more so on assumptions and so called engineering goals ,say take the numbers from the old car and scale up for the new demands...so maybe these top notch teams are ALOT better than OEMs in simulating ,no doubt but still simulation is working best when you are doing small scale development.
Looking at the merc wich is really a long way from the brawn car ,there is not much
in terms of data that transfers from last year...
Comparing this to RB ... it was almost like : what´s new ? .. you asked yourself when viewing the RB6 compared to RB5...

[aral]

I would have to disagree.
I do not think there are many things within the team that are flawed.
This year the regulations have made major reductions to testing and other work and Merc is working with a very reduced staff.
I would guess that they are well aware of the problems but unable to apply enough testing and budget to deal with them effectively.

I just cannot understand your "reasoning". ALL teams had to start from the same baseline, and managed to produce something competitive. But Mercedes are going BACKWARDS. You cannot blame that on misinterpretation of the rules, but you can blame it on lack of skills.

By the way, you seem to be straying off topic again!