British GP 2010 - Silverstone

[WhiteBlue]

I just have the SKY feed and sometimes I also keep digital copies of the replays they do. I naturally do not have the means of FOM who also have a helicopter view. In this particular case they did show the helicopter view in the post race analysis but I did not get it on disks. It was a different broadcast to the race which I had previously programmed to record. I will try to record the post race stuff also in the future. A complete race weekend is approximately 80 GB in 1080p and I try not to waste too much HD space. I would have to check the frame rate but it is likely to be 25 images per second. Naturally I do not copy each picture here because it involves copying screen shots to a hoster and it would waste too much bandwidth here. I select frames that clearly show how things evolve and if a users asks for additional frames between I can and have delivered them. So I'm not sure how much is supposed bias on my part and what is just inferior material compared to the stewards.

[ISLAMATRON]

This pic to me shows a locked up SV(see the smoke?) who is off line into a 180 degree turn and too far back for Sutil to see where he is.

[WhiteBlue]

Vettle plowed into the side of Sutil and yes he used him as brake. The proof is in the contact. Avoidable contact, should have been a drive thru.

A very simplistic view IMO and not really compelling. Surely both drivers must make an effort to avoid contact when they are partially overlapped lengthwise and there is plenty of space. The stewards did not share your view of a one sided punishable offense by Vettel. I agree with that.

WB, your position is shaky and your stills do not help your case as they do not represent the full view of what truly happened

They can never be truly exhausting but my view is supported by the official stewarding and the lack of a complaint from FI. I listened to Heidfeld in the race analysis and he initially was of your opinion. He was presented with the helicpter view (which I missed to record) and he changed his mind.

[WhiteBlue]

This pic to me shows a locked up SV(see the smoke?) who is off line into a 180 degree turn and too far back for Sutil to see where he is.

This was already discussed. The tyre smoke comes only from the unloaded inside wheel and not fromthe outside wheel, which tracks. The following pic show that Vettel is fully in control of the turn. His aspect changes from picture to picture which would not be the case if he was sliding straight.

Sutil must have seen Vettel because he had been filling his mirrors for 12 laps and this was the logical spot for an attack. What Sutil did not expect was an attack along the line that Vettel took this time. He went wide the previous corner and used his higher cornering downforce and speed to take the longer outside line to get inside on the decisive corner. Sutil did not defend against that early enough to prevent Seb to sneak up his inside. I have no doubt though that he saw him He would have cried out loud if that had been the case.

I would perfectly accept that Vettel did a robust attack and Sutil also took no prisoners. They are both German and I'm not at all biased towards any of them. I think they did both well and deserved the applause of the public for showing a good fight. Had the thing ended in tears the situation might warrant all the criticism. But it went fine and they both got a good result considering their qualifying and race.

[Richard]

The Vettel / Sutl incident was simply tough racing. Sutl left a slight gap for Vettel to get a run up the inside line. From that point on they needed to race side by side.

It's no different to the Button/Hamilton manoeuvres that we saw in Turkey, or the moves Button pulled in his race to the WDC in Brazil in 09. An interview with Button on Top Gear after that race explained it. From memory it was along the lines of:

JClarkson “You dived up the inside when there appeared to be no room, your car wobbled under heavy braking, and then your rear end was sliding out as you went round the corner. Was that deliberate?”

JB “Yes” – small grin on face

JC “But you weren’t in control of the car, you could have crashed into the chap next to you and your race would be over”

JB “Yes” – big grin on face

JC “So are you saying you went into the corner barely under control, knowing you would hit the other car, and you hoped the other guy would get out of the way?”

JB “He did get out of the way didn’t he?” - a look on his face that says isn't it obvious?

The lesson is that the great drivers rely on their arrogance to bluff other drivers into conceding. They put the other driver onto the classic horns of a dilemma – “Stick to your line and we both crash, or concede and you can stay on the track”.

Of course the great drivers earn respect for their skill and daring which is why they can get away with those manoeuvres. Lesser drivers attempt it and are seen as stupid. I’m not saying if Vettel is great or lesser, just that he is adopting a similar style.

[WhiteBlue]

I'm reading this on the front page:

There has never been any pressure from Red Bull to favour one driver over the other. I didn’t have a conversation with Helmut Marko or anyone from Red Bull regarding the decision to give Sebastian the wing - it was purely a technical decision, which I discussed with Adrian Newey. My one regret is that I didn’t have time to discuss the issue with Mark personally prior to qualifying, as I’m sure that would have given him a more balanced understanding.

Omigod, Horner should be in control of a the Bumfeck Ohio cheerleaders and not of an F1 team. Slowly I begin to understand this incredible clusterfeck. I never grasped why Webber started flexing his muscles after qualifying. Horner's explanation sounded ok for me particularly because the wing wasn' t supposed to be a performance issue and Webber did not endorse it initially. But if Vettel's race engineer strolled to the other side of the garage and got the wing without an explanation, Webber must have felt disadvantaged. I would have also felt screwed over. Horner obviously has a lot to learn about delicate personnel communication.

[komninosm]

Why wasn't Alonso allowed to serve his drive through during the SC phase? Other people were pitting exactly at the time... I though it was "penalty given, penalty served". Sometimes you get lucky, sometimes unlucky. He would have lost 4 or 5 places, not 10.
Was he not allowed to serve the drive through under SC out of safety concerns?
Charlie whiting must really hate him.

It looked strange to me too! I don't think it is in the regs., so it much have come from Charlie. Perhaps, to screw Alonso again It is not the first time Alonso takes it on the stewards and Charlie is probably not happy with it.....

Anyway, my first reaction was that he should let Bob pass. I am not sure what Ferrari were thinking.....

EDIT: It is indeed in the regs that no penalty can be served durign a SC period. So, I retract soem of my comments

:^o [-X

[komninosm]

He did a super recovery from being back almost 90 s.

Only after the safety car brought him back in to play. Before that he was driving around like he was just out enjoying the view.

And it seems the only way to pass a Force India is to drive in to the side of the thing and push it out of the way.

So true!
Has Hamilton passed a FI in previous races?

[komninosm]

Some bad drives out there such as Vettel. Look at Alonso's charge after his penalty compared to Vettel's wander around the circuit until the SC. Vettel needs to grow up.

How anyone can say that Vettels drive was bad and that he needs to grow up is unfathomable. Remind me how many cars did he pass? He lost as much time after his right rear got sliced by the front wing of a driver who will remain nameless he was no where with very little opportunity do do anything special. For him to finish 7th is an excellent recovery drive and was easily the best performance out there today.

He meant the times Vettel did for laps 5-15 probably. He was slow. Looked like he gave up. His car was so fast that his performance was weak. He even crashed into a Force India again... [-X

[komninosm]

He lost as much time after his right rear got sliced by the front wing of a driver who will remain nameless

Why the veiled attempt to suggest that Hamilton did something wrong? Hamilton got the jump on Vettel (and to some degree Webber) partly because of Vettel's attempted chop on Webber. Hamilton was having to brake to avoid driving in to the back of Webber because Webber was slower than he should have been at that point. Vettel tried to close Webber on the apex of Copse which meant he ended up squeezing Hamilton. Neither Webber nor Hamilton had anywhere to go so Vettel's puncture was not Hamilton's fault. I don't blame Vettel either really although it was his actions that led to it. It was a typical first corner incident and some in here wouldn't mention it were it not for Hamilton being involved. Hamilton would not have sat there thinking "I'll try to puncture Vettel's tyre" because the greater risk was that Hamilton would have lost his front wing. I'm amazed he didn't lose some of it to be honest.

I didn't mention Hamilton's name anywhere so why accuse him? I guess if the cap fits....

/facepalm
It was so hard to infer who you meant was it? It wasn't like we ALL SAW the race start.
Disingenuous... :^o [-X

[WhiteBlue]

How anyone can say that Vettels drive was bad and that he needs to grow up is unfathomable. Remind me how many cars did he pass? He lost as much time after his right rear got sliced by the front wing of a driver who will remain nameless he was no where with very little opportunity do do anything special. For him to finish 7th is an excellent recovery drive and was easily the best performance out there today.

He meant the times Vettel did for laps 5-15 probably. He was slow. Looked like he gave up. His car was so fast that his performance was weak. He even crashed into a Force India again... [-X

Nobody seems to read the facts. Vettel's car was damaged from running a complete lap with a blown tyre. Then he did 50 laps on one set which required a certain amount of management. Nevertheless he managed to remain unlapped for 28 laps and passed six cars on track until the safety car came out. He then passed another seven cars on track. He passed the entire field up to P7 except Alonso, Kubica, De la Rosa and Di Grassi. I have not seen anything comparable this year from any of the other top drivers incl. Alonso. I bet he had less passes.

[komninosm]

Didn't see that one. Bit blurry though. The on-board footage from Vettels car would be better. I'm pretty certain that there wasn't any contact anyway. Just a good firm but fair pass.

Wanna bet?

[komninosm]

How anyone can say that Vettels drive was bad and that he needs to grow up is unfathomable. Remind me how many cars did he pass? He lost as much time after his right rear got sliced by the front wing of a driver who will remain nameless he was no where with very little opportunity do do anything special. For him to finish 7th is an excellent recovery drive and was easily the best performance out there today.

He meant the times Vettel did for laps 5-15 probably. He was slow. Looked like he gave up. His car was so fast that his performance was weak. He even crashed into a Force India again... [-X

Nobody seems to read the facts. Vettel's car was damaged from running a complete lap with a blown tyre. Then he did 50 laps on one set which required a certain amount of management. Nevertheless he managed to remain unlapped for 28 laps and passed six cars on track until the safety car came out. He then passed another seven cars on track. He passed the entire field up to P7 except Alonso, Kubica, De la Rosa and Di Grassi. I have not seen anything comparable this year from any of the other top drivers incl. Alonso. I bet he had less passes.

That's one way to look at it. He seemed uninterested to me, more than having a damaged car. He could go pretty fast later on when he got his hopes back after the SC. What you say is not unreasonable and played a major role, but my view played a small part too, you must acknowledge this to be fair.

[Richard]

passed six cars on track until the safety car came out. He then passed another seven cars on track.

Are you sure he didn't pass any of them in pit stops?

[komninosm]

Alonso could have avoided the problem by giving the position back. Pushed or not, you don't pass off-track. It was stupid.

And of course, if he hadn't botched the start, he'd never have been in that position anyway. You make your bed...

I didn't see anything special about Vettel today. How many times do we see guys in less dominating cars work their way from last to 4th or 5th? Vettel didn't even do that, despite being helped tremendously by the safety car and an hour of clear track. So come on, the guy was a full second faster in qually than every single car he passed in the race - from Hulkenburg down, he was a full 2 seconds faster! Sorry, but given the circumstances, at the very least he should have been on Button's gearbox at the end. Geesh, at one point, his team even had to get on the radio to tell him to stop pouting and get on with his job - how can you even begin to call that an impressive drive?

Really? Got a link for that please?