What will come after the 2.4 V8?

[WhiteBlue]

if the engine is that small i.e. 1.5L will it be a stressed member?

what is the purpose of downsizing of the engine from its current 2.4L, they can still have a the same 2.4L turbocharged at a lower boost pressure and have a lower devlopment cost.

They are aiming for an immediate 25% reduction of fuel followed by another 25% over five years. This translates to 30 kg less fuel load immediately from 2013 and 6 kg less every year that follows. By 2018 they are supposed to be down at 80 kg race fuel while performance is supposed to be equal to now.

The fuel saving will be achieved by developing technologies that are transferrable to road cars and that will have a big impact on the attractiveness for manufacturers. Williams are obviously speculating to become powered by Audi or Porsche.

If good technologies are developed and transferred to road cars it could have a big impact on global transportation fuel consumption. So I believe it is a good idea.

The same cannot be achieved with the current spec V8 engines. They are too big, have too much friction and adding turbo compounders or turbo loaders would not significantly help their efficiency.

[autogyro]

+1
The crucial issue is to achieve all this and still maintain F1s performance above other formula and to make sure it remains an awesome sporting discipline.

IMO getting this balance right is the most difficult issue to overcome in F1s history up to now.

[xxChrisxx]

Williams are obviously speculating to become powered by Audi or Porsche.

That's a distinct possibility, I can see VW group trying their hand at F1 if they move to a smaller displacement turbo.

[madtown77]

Cutting fuel consumption by 50% overall and maintaining power is actually already a possibility. Pre-chamber combustion systems can run engines with lambda of 2 and produce thermal efficiencies of nearly 50% (as opposed to the low to mid 20's for most engines). All this while maintaining the same power output.

Would definitely be an interesting issue for a race car as I think the only practical applications for this ignition technology are in larger engines (as of today anyway)

[autogyro]

Cutting fuel consumption by 50% overall and maintaining power is actually already a possibility. Pre-chamber combustion systems can run engines with lambda of 2 and produce thermal efficiencies of nearly 50% (as opposed to the low to mid 20's for most engines). All this while maintaining the same power output.

Would definitely be an interesting issue for a race car as I think the only practical applications for this ignition technology are in larger engines (as of today anyway)

Sorry I cannot agree with you on this.
50 percent improvement on over all fuel consumption?
I dont think so.
Not unless it is a very very inefficient engine to start with, hmmm GM perhaps?

[ISLAMATRON]

Cutting fuel consumption by 50% overall and maintaining power is actually already a possibility. Pre-chamber combustion systems can run engines with lambda of 2 and produce thermal efficiencies of nearly 50% (as opposed to the low to mid 20's for most engines). All this while maintaining the same power output.

Would definitely be an interesting issue for a race car as I think the only practical applications for this ignition technology are in larger engines (as of today anyway)

What are "Pre-chamber combustion systems"?

[madtown77]

Basically, the spark plug is replaced with a very small volume with a small spark plug and independent fuel injector in it. A rich mixture of fuel and air is ignited and its exhaust sent through a nozzle into the main combustion chamber which has a very lean (30:1) A/F ratio. Since the ignition starts at several points at once this is possible and the burn is very quick and efficient compared to a spark plug starting a flame front at the center of the chamber.

I am looking for the SAE paper number. There have been a few studies on it done and I know at least one company involved with heavy engines that has a kind of system like this. Application in a car might be possible, but would require a lot of research. Perfect for F1.

[WhiteBlue]

Diesels had pre chamber ignition before they raised injection pressures and achieved more homogeneous charges. I don't think that the quoted efficiency increases would be achievable.

[madtown77]

Possibly not. That is based on what a friend who worked in engine calibration working with these engines said. I too find it a little hard to believe but he indicated they could reach about 47% efficiency. Again this is more for a generator application with constant RPM than a car.

[Pachoba]

I think, ti will be very interesting. Maybe back to 1.5 litre turbocharged engines but with rotary valves.

Next options are:

1.) 1.2 litre turbocharged R4
2.4/2=1.2
2.4 have 600bhp so 1.2 is half from 2.4
1.2 can have 300bhp
turbocharging can settle performance about 600bhp(i think)

2.) 1.4 litre turbocharged R4

3.) 1.6 litre turbocharged R4

[King Six]

What about the revs, I'm expecting that we'll never see a return to the days of 20k+ redlines.

[WhiteBlue]

What about the revs, I'm expecting that we'll never see a return to the days of 20k+ redlines.

Power will come from more from turbo charging than from revs. So I would agree with the assumption that revs will never go up there.

[FW17]

What about the revs, I'm expecting that we'll never see a return to the days of 20k+ redlines.

Power will come from more from turbo charging than from revs. So I would agree with the assumption that revs will never go up there.

What is the relation between turbocharging and revs?

[WhiteBlue]

You can increase power by revs or by torque. Torque is done by engine capacity and charging the capacity with higher pressure than natural aspired engines would do. The current NA engines had a fixed volume and so the only way to increase power was by revs. The top revs were never reached in recent years because the engines had to live longer for cost reasons.

In the future they can simply control the charge or limit the fuel. So a rev race isn't likely to happen ever again.

[ISLAMATRON]

hopefully they ban pneumatic valves or better yet open up the valvetrane regs.

maybe they'll allow rotary valves
or variable valve timing
or variable runner lengths

alot of things banned over the years that can increase efficiency should be allowed back in... but in a cost effective manner