COTA Austin - construction and infrastructure

[WhiteBlue]

I want to see some nice banked turns, would make the track very unique. Something like Anderstorp, but longer

The F1 tracks are not allowed to have banking greater 10%.

Transversal inclination, drainage
Along straights, the transversal incline, for drainage purposes, between the two edges of the track or between the centre-line and the edge (camber), should not exceed 3%, or be less than 1,5 %.
In curves, the banking (downwards from the outside to the inside of the track) should not exceed 10 % (with possible exceptions in special cases, such as speedways). An adverse incline is not generally acceptable unless dictated by special circumstances, in which case the entry speed should not exceed 125 kph.

[WhiteBlue]

Good news from Austin

There hasn't needed to be any progress on the land because we already have the land. I know people have been digging around to find my names. Well, I wasn't a rookie and everything was put in holding names. Most of it [was bought] over a year and a half ago. I can tell you it's over 600 acres and less than 2000.

The land is exciting and the Tilke folks have been coming non-stop. We changed turns 1 and 3 last week, just for aesthetic reasons - lines of sight. For people who aren't Tilke fans, I think it's a departure for Tilke. There are elevation changes, it's going to be over three miles long and there will be fast corners. There will be several places on the track that spectators can see multiple corners. We like the layout now.

[andrew]

Tilke, now there's a surprise(!) Just give me a minute to pick myself up off the floor after falling off my chair.

[Midnight-34]

There will be several places on the track that spectators can see multiple corners.

Translation: a series of slow corners with no overtake oportunity
I hope it won't be another tilkodrome with straight-arpin-strainght or heavy braking zone just after a fast corner were a car si too influenced by turbolence to folow another one

[FW17]

The problem with Tilke designs are the not fast corners but the lower Avg speed the max we get is about 226 Kmph on turkey, Austin has to be a celerbration of speed i.e avg speed in excess of 250 kmph.

A 3 mile track is no fun, i bet it will be a track that is wrpped around itself in confined piece of land.

So what sort of characteristic will it have – what current track has a similar feel?

TH: What we did was take maybe seven or eight of our favourite things from other tracks – some of them that are no longer in play in F1, but three or four of them are. And we said we want this corner on this track, and this corner on this track.

I would say that, hopefully, people will view it as a throwback to some of the older, traditional tracks – although obviously with the added safety features and requirements that the FIA has. It will be a track that the drivers will walk through and think: "Man, I have to be on my best game today!"

I hope this is one of them

[WhiteBlue]

That looks like more than 10% banking. Is that Avus?



Yep, the "wall of death". German GP 1959.



With 43° banking it was much too dangerous and it did not even have guard rails at the top.



Bernd Rosemeyer in a dramatic shot. They did 260 kmh average speed there.

[mx_tifoso]

...

So what sort of characteristic will it have – what current track has a similar feel?

TH: What we did was take maybe seven or eight of our favourite things from other tracks – some of them that are no longer in play in F1, but three or four of them are. And we said we want this corner on this track, and this corner on this track.

I would say that, hopefully, people will view it as a throwback to some of the older, traditional tracks – although obviously with the added safety features and requirements that the FIA has. It will be a track that the drivers will walk through and think: "Man, I have to be on my best game today!"

..

So much for originality and creativity. IIRC wasn't taking a bunch of turns from different tracks creating a problem as they didn't mix and match so well?

[FW17]

Taking fast corners form exiting circuits will not ruin the flow as they dont have to slow down too much that is why divers love sequences like Spa sector 1 and 2, silverstone sector 1, suzuka sector 1 etc.

[godlameroso]

Well you can have some 10 degree banked corner combinations that look like the Essess in Suzuka. Maybe some turns from A1 ring, like that medium speed corner at the top of the hill.

A question, where does all the passing happen on tracks, when it does happen? 9/10 times it happens after long straights leading to braking zones, that have exits where traction is crucial; or at places where you can take more than one line and still be fast. Everywhere else is downright improbable to impossible. If you want to have passing then you have to have at least a few corners like this. Tracks that only have one line through them end up being processions. Look at Hungaroring, it's a great track to drive, but unfortunately it's too narrow for there to be more than one line through any give corner. If the decreased the angle of the high speed turn leading to the final heavy braking right hander we might have another passing opportunity. Or if they tightened up the first and second corners.

[WhiteBlue]

I have faith in Tilke to do a very good job when he is given the right spec. He gave us the turkish track that is the most dramatic right after Spa with 46 m of elevation changes all nicely used. That track has the turkish cork screw, the fast quadruple apex turn eight and a great overtaking spot into turn twelve. So we can safely assume that Hermann knows how to deliver those things. It also looks like Hellmann is knowing what he does and that he is closing in on the final permits. He seems to be a clever marketing guy who has all the big points covered. The venue certainly is first class in terms of infra structure, demographics and connectivity. If the finance is as good as he claims this could easily become the best road racing circuit ever in America in terms of track quality, business attractiveness and F1 level safety.

[andrew]

The problem with Tilke's tracks is that he tries to be too fancy. With the exception of Sepang, they are all pretty boring and uninspiring. Perhaps if he keeps it simple he will get it right but I seriously doubt it. There must be another track designer knocking around somewhere.

[godlameroso]

Was the Algavre circuit done by Tilke as well? That track definitely has some interesting elevation changes.

If it's a good track it'll do well, maybe even used by other series, I could see alms Indy and super bike having a go, maybe even gt1 world championship

[jon-mullen]

[....]In curves, the banking (downwards from the outside to the inside of the track) should not exceed 10 % (with possible exceptions in special cases, such as speedways)[....]

I was under the impression that when grades are spec'd in percentages that the given number is the tangent of the angle. In the US we get signs on the highways that say for instance "Caution 6% grade ahead". It's kind of intuitive in that it makes a 100% grade 45 degrees.

So I've got 10% banking being

tan(theta) = .1 ---> theta = 5.7 deg

Is this incorrect?

[WhiteBlue]

I thought that 100% slope would relate to 180°. Surely AWD vehicles can climb more than 45°.

[jon-mullen]

Well, here's a picture from Wikipedia: Grade (slope). I'd assume it's the same for banking, after all it's just a sideways hill. Helps explain why the had to write in an exception for "speedways", Indy's 11 degrees would be 19%.