Red Bull RB6

[aral]

I'm pretty sure the nose camera design was first seen on the Mercedes, but they are on the outside of the FW pylons, still as effective in flapping the centre section.

Maybe, maybe not. RB would not get the same effect if the posts were on the outside.
Notice the big barge boards under the nose?

The angle of the camera fins is strictly ontrolled at neutral. However, due to the aerofoil shape of the underside in particular, they would create a venturi effect, and pull more air over the top plane of the front wing. Maybe FIA should designate a particular position for the camera pods.

[BreezyRacer]

Opposite of that, actually, I believe. They would slow the airflow over the top of the control element. That should create a low pressure behind the lower section of the cameras and create more flow under the control element.

[ringo]

. The air is as fast as it'll ever be at the front of the car right there, so i don't think it is pulling it. What it does is create ground effect along with the centre of the wing, seeing as though there is a reasonable floor area when the posts are coupled with the wing. Secondly it focuses the air a little more onto the splitter downstream of it.
Another way of looking at it, is in terms of drag, it has lesser drag penalty if it's in the silhouette.
Mercedes doesn't have this kind of effect with their setup.

[strad]

Obviously not motorcycle people...lean== straw /yellowish pipes...rich==blueish

[marcush.]

Obviously not motorcycle people...lean== straw /yellowish pipes...rich==blueish

coloration is not an indicator of lean or rich mixtures but of temps achieved...

here a graph for temperatures and coloration of steel:

http://up.picr.de/3866942.jpg

the blueing can be a sign of lean OR extremely rich mixture ,or retarded timing wich will also boost exhaaust temps ..of course long idling ..not much air going over the headerpipes will provoke coloration and of course the thin gauge material of F1 exhaust pipes will show coloration quicker .

[F1_eng]

You do not have to keep the cameras neutral, you can have +-5°. They act to effectively flap the central section of the front wing. The best config is dependant on the effect on the down-stream devices. It's a great device to achive a lot of front CoP shift.

Whether the device is good for a car depends on a lot of factors. What you might end up doing is increasing circulation on the front which which gains front balance, but also reducing rear df due to altering the condition of the up-stream flow. This could mean that you have caused too large a CoP shift. This then has be be re-balanced with the rear wing. How effecting the config is, is dependant on the RW polar gradient that it being re-balanced to.

I am perfectly happy to discuss the dynamics of race car aero when it's not discussing a detailed part on a car. Which is why I am not detailing about the cameras too much.
I wished people would ask more sensible questions about aero and what are the targets of race cars and how we go about achieving them, rather than endlessly trying to come up with crazy theories about parts.
For example, someone might say 'X causes increased front downforce' when you could do the same with increased flap angle. Not many people here could discuss this simple topic, so how on earth do they expect to understand complex part interations. You fist need to know what you're trying to achieve before going anywhere.

[Just_a_fan]

Presumably the flapping effect the 'camera housings' have on the front wing is increased by virtue of the whole thing being in ground effect. In free stream the 'flapped' central section wouldn't generate much negative lift but being in ground effect increases the effectiveness of the combination.

As for the effect on downstream flow, I've said several times that I think the real key to the RB6's overall downforce performance is the detailed design of the front wing and how it helps the rear to maximise its potential. Look at the car as whole and you see the front wing looks out of place; it has lots of little details, slots, flaps etc. whereas the rest of the bodywork is actually quite simple - especially the bodywork around the rear. The rear is obviously designed to maximise the benefits of whatever the front wing is doing to the air.

Lots has been discussed about the blown diffuser but there is an awful lot of aero going on before the air gets there and it all starts at the front wing.

[strad]

Obviously not motorcycle people...lean== straw /yellowish pipes...rich==blueish

coloration is not an indicator of lean or rich mixtures but of temps achieved...

here a graph for temperatures and coloration of steel:

http://up.picr.de/3866942.jpg

the blueing can be a sign of lean OR extremely rich mixture ,or retarded timing wich will also boost exhaaust temps ..of course long idling ..not much air going over the headerpipes will provoke coloration and of course the thin gauge material of F1 exhaust pipes will show coloration quicker .

Gimme a break..and just how do you think those temps are reached..rich is cool compared to lean which is hot..after riding and custom tuning motorcycles for over 40 years I'm pretty clear on this one.

[marcush.]

maybe I put my statement in a wrong context..apologies for this it was not my intention to question your expertise.
I wanted to say you could not simply tell by the coloration of exhaust pipe if mixture was lean or rich ,as other factors will also have a big influence on coloration ..:time exposed to the conditions,ignition timing ,wall thickness,coating inside the tube,airflow around the pipe etc..all things you will not be able to quantify when looking at a pic.You will be able to see the oxidation only-imagine the exhaust in an inert chamber would show no coloration at all...as an extreme example.

If you are looking at one and the same system you can of course make a more qualified statement in terms of mixture from looking at the colour ...

[Richard]

marcush - Is your point that a car with a history of overheating exhausts is likely to have marked colouration of a hot exhaust, especially if it is an old exhaust. Whereas a new exhaust in a traditional periscope format is likely to be less coloured even if it is running on a similar mix?

[marcush.]

marcush - Is your point that a car with a history of overheating exhausts is likely to have marked colouration of a hot exhaust, especially if it is an old exhaust. Whereas a new exhaust in a traditional periscope format is likely to be less coloured even if it is running on a similar mix?

bringing this back on topic...yes,even if I was coming from somewhere else with my comments.

[mep]

I wanted to say you could not simply tell by the coloration of exhaust pipe if mixture was lean or rich ,as other factors will also have a big influence on coloration ..:time exposed to the conditions,ignition timing ,wall thickness,coating inside the tube,airflow around the pipe etc..all things you will not be able to quantify when looking at a pic.You will be able to see the oxidation only-imagine the exhaust in an inert chamber would show no coloration at all...as an extreme example.

The things you mentioned:
time exposed to the conditions, ignition timing ,wall thickness,coating inside the tube,airflow around the pipe etc..
I think they have just a very small impact on temperature but not big enough to change the colour in such a extreme way. Furthermore for some its just a matter of time until your top surface of the exhaust reaches its temperature.

Straw made a good point here.
Lean and rich mixture affects the temperature in a big fashion. The things you mentioned do not.

Nevertheless I think the main difference in this case is the material. The Ferrari maybe has more chrome in the steel or anything else is different. I don’t know enough about material to say anything for sure but I have seen hot metal already. For some you would not even see a big difference but luckly you feel the heat. Its the only thing that stops you from touch it.
You can see that the RB one has similar colours on some spots. Its just harder to see because of the general darker appearance.

[autogyro]

Different metal IMO.

[marcush.]

I wanted to say you could not simply tell by the coloration of exhaust pipe if mixture was lean or rich ,as other factors will also have a big influence on coloration ..:time exposed to the conditions,ignition timing ,wall thickness,coating inside the tube,airflow around the pipe etc..all things you will not be able to quantify when looking at a pic.You will be able to see the oxidation only-imagine the exhaust in an inert chamber would show no coloration at all...as an extreme example.

The things you mentioned:
time exposed to the conditions, ignition timing ,wall thickness,coating inside the tube,airflow around the pipe etc..
I think they have just a very small impact on temperature but not big enough to change the colour in such a extreme way. Furthermore for some its just a matter of time until your top surface of the exhaust reaches its temperature.

Straw made a good point here.
Lean and rich mixture affects the temperature in a big fashion. The things you mentioned do not.

Nevertheless I think the main difference in this case is the material. The Ferrari maybe has more chrome in the steel or anything else is different. I don’t know enough about material to say anything for sure but I have seen hot metal already. For some you would not even see a big difference but luckly you feel the heat. Its the only thing that stops you from touch it.
You can see that the RB one has similar colours on some spots. Its just harder to see because of the general darker appearance.

sorry ,i choose to digress .retarde timing affects exhaust temps in amjor ways up to the point of red glowing exhaust pipes with a mimimum load..the effect is very
pronounced and so it will be difficult to judge from coloration (not engine behaviour!) if this is a lean or retarded ignition situation.

I did a lot of stainless exhaust fabrication and I can tell you coloration of pipes has a LOT to do with airflow around the pipes ,or the lack of it .Having coatings inside the tube will reduce parts temperature considerably...so of course the coloration will change accordingly (see table I posted).
As outlined before the ferrari pipes are electropolished and show a lot brighter colour and this alone will give a different impression on oxidisation .

[mep]

Ok, Ok I agree.
You can make differences to the temperatures with these things.
Do you think that is the mayor point here?
I thought the discussion is more about why one is dark and the other one shiny.

What material are the Red bull exhausts made of , seems different form the Ferrari(steel)?

Could this material be advantageous, such as retaining heat longer for unburnt fuel to burn off during throttle lift.

I'd bet they're made of the same high temp alloy, e.g. inconel, just that the light and angle isn't quite the same in each photo. They may run at slightly different temps too which might affect colour. Or they might have done more miles with one than the other.

Both exhaust show colours from heat. Just on the RB they are not that visible because of the darker colour. I don't think the reason why one is bright and one shiny has anything to do with the temperatures or how often it got used. The dark colour is just to uniform to be heat related.
I think we can’t even say which one got used more. Something shiny always looks new but on the dark one I see less blue colours.
We should search the difference in the material and coating they have and we should look what advantages they bring.