Mclaren Mercedes MP4-25

[internetf1fan]

If they are not up to pace next race it will be clear that the hunt to copy the EBD has hurt McLaren really bad. Not only they would have wasted valuable resources and time but they will go back to old chassis when other teams are moving forward.

I was always wary of the EBD, you can't just bolt on a new part that was designed for another car and go faster.

[myurr]

If they are not up to pace next race it will be clear that the hunt to copy the EBD has hurt McLaren really bad. Not only they would have wasted valuable resources and time but they will go back to old chassis when other teams are moving forward.

I was always wary of the EBD, you can't just bolt on a new part that was designed for another car and go faster.

Pure hyperbole. They're still on their first race with the EBD, and their pace was equal to or better than with the old chassis we just saw Ferrari take a big step forward. It took Ferrari a couple of races to get it right and look at them now, give them time. With the back to back races it's unlikely they'll have time to do anything magical for the next race. If they're still off the pace in Spa then we may start to call into question their development direction.

Don't forget that Ferrari also copied the EBD and the f-duct, it can be done.

[Holm86]

If they are not up to pace next race it will be clear that the hunt to copy the EBD has hurt McLaren really bad. Not only they would have wasted valuable resources and time but they will go back to old chassis when other teams are moving forward.

I was always wary of the EBD, you can't just bolt on a new part that was designed for another car and go faster.

Pure hyperbole. They're still on their first race with the EBD, and their pace was equal to or better than with the old chassis we just saw Ferrari take a big step forward. It took Ferrari a couple of races to get it right and look at them now, give them time. With the back to back races it's unlikely they'll have time to do anything magical for the next race. If they're still off the pace in Spa then we may start to call into question their development direction.

Don't forget that Ferrari also copied the EBD and the f-duct, it can be done.

Yes it is only 1 week between races this time but there should be enough time to create an engine map similar to RBR and i suspect Ferrari also were running this retarded ignition i germany.
Perhaps this is what gave Ferrari their boost this weekend.

[Mandrake]

The retarded ignition is only used in Q3 afaik. There is nothing to be gained in the race. Nevertheless McLaren were also not up to the pace in the race itself in Germany. They claim it was an inadequate Aeropackage which won't happen at Budapest.

[timbo]

They claim it was an inadequate Aeropackage which won't happen at Budapest.

I wonder why they have that issue once again (same thing was reported @ Bahrain).

[ringo]

It's time for a new diffuser. This barn door needs some holes punched in it.
It's what's different between them, redbull and ferrari.

Punch some holes in the lower blade by the crash structure (or remove the blade). Replace it with a curved upper deck, akin to redbull's.

[internetf1fan]

They're still on their first race with the EBD, and their pace was equal to or better than with the old chassis

How exactly do you know this? Whenever McLaren have used the old chassis, they've ALWAYS had good race pace, no matter how far behind they're in qualifying. With the EBD they are behind in qualy AND uncharacteristically behind in the race. We were all expecting Hamilton and Button to challenge the Ferraris, even RBRs in the race, but never happened.

[Mandrake]

[How exactly do you know this? Whenever McLaren have used the old chassis, they've ALWAYS had good race pace, no matter how far behind they're in qualifying. With the EBD they are behind in qualy AND uncharacteristically behind in the race. We were all expecting Hamilton and Button to challenge the Ferraris, even RBRs in the race, but never happened.

I wonder why they have that issue once again (same thing was reported @ Bahrain).

Same story, the whole aero package they've brought was inadequate. Why they over/underestimated the track is not known (to me) but Button told that they either had too low topspeeds (from too much DF) or too little DF which they had in the end. With the car not as perfectly set up as in the other races there was not anything to win for them. Not to mention the track seemed to suit the Ferraris pretty well.

[Remote_Access]

They're still on their first race with the EBD, and their pace was equal to or better than with the old chassis

How exactly do you know this? Whenever McLaren have used the old chassis, they've ALWAYS had good race pace, no matter how far behind they're in qualifying. With the EBD they are behind in qualy AND uncharacteristically behind in the race. We were all expecting Hamilton and Button to challenge the Ferraris, even RBRs in the race, but never happened.

McLaren took a deliberate strategy of using a low downforce configuration at Hockenheim, and they admitted this config was not entirely efficient or effective. They believe that their high downforce config at Hungary will be a lot better.

I know you're convinced that McLaren is wrong to pursue the EBD, but it is clearly a significant avenue of development (Ferrari has gained a lot) and they would be unwise to ignore it. Like last year, where most cars were not designed for a DDD, it would obviously have been wrong for them not to pursue a bolt-on version that year.

[PlatinumZealot]

what is hampering Mclaren?
why are they suddenly 25 sec off the race leader?
IS it the blown diffusor which is causing this problem?

I honestly think that the Engineers at mclaren don't have the same understanding of aerodynamics as the engineers at Ferrari and RedBull. Some little edge that mclaren don't have.

[Remote_Access]

Whitmarsh has said that now that they have the EBD 'working', ie not creating problems, the aerodynamicists can now get involved in ernest. This implies that the development of the EBD has so far been based on making it happen without doing too much damage, and now the real aero development will begin. Probably not fair to pass judgement on the aero guys just yet.

[myurr]

what is hampering Mclaren?
why are they suddenly 25 sec off the race leader?
IS it the blown diffusor which is causing this problem?

I honestly think that the Engineers at mclaren don't have the same understanding of aerodynamics as the engineers at Ferrari and RedBull. Some little edge that mclaren don't have.

Wow, however did they come up with the f-duct then, something that the engineers at Ferrari and Redbull have copied.

Back in reality the difference is simply the way the teams approach upgrading the cars. Red Bull and McLaren have both gone down the incremental upgrade route, bringing a little bit of an upgrade to each and every race, whereas Ferrari have gone the major upgrade route whereby their car stagnated for several races before they brought out a big upgrade. Now they've got that big upgrade working they've taken a big step forward, but they've lost out in previous races whilst Red Bull and McLaren brought home the points.

We'll see at the end of the year which approach is right.

[thestig84]

what is hampering Mclaren?
why are they suddenly 25 sec off the race leader?
IS it the blown diffusor which is causing this problem?

I honestly think that the Engineers at mclaren don't have the same understanding of aerodynamics as the engineers at Ferrari and RedBull. Some little edge that mclaren don't have.

I wonder if you would have said that about Ferrari after Barcelona or Turkey when off the pace and admitting they had wasted too much effort COPYING Mclarens F-duct. Over in the f10 thread they were laying into ferrari and their underdeveloped front wing. As Myurr said its just different approaches for different teams.

Mclaren clearly have the same know how as the other current pace setters. I think many people are being too quick to write Mclaren off in the development race. Sure the last couple havent been top of the tree pace wise but points wise they have been great races if they were the 'bad races/results' to get out the way. I think they will be further on top of the ebd concept, dont know if it will show up round Hungary mind you.

[marcush.]

the important thing here is:
Both drivers are still scoring very good points even though Mclaren is not yet there with the EBD and Q3 map ....and outscoring the better placed RB of Mark Webber in this.
Ferrari scored 2 times nil points developing the EBD and map...quite remarkable....

the MP4/25 is in the hands of team Mclaren still making most out of its potential compared to RB and the reds.they had that one avoidable glitch with button in Montecarlo which did not hurt too much,but that deja vu of rimfailure for Hamilton which surely was avoidable and valuable points slip..

[Morteza]

Mclaren still socnfused by flexi-wings:
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/85618