Flexible wings controversy 2010

Here are our CFD links and discussions about aerodynamics, suspension, driver safety and tyres. Please stick to F1 on this forum.
marcush.
marcush.
159
Joined: 09 Mar 2004, 16:55

Re: Flexible wings controversy 2010

Post

could it be the straight vertical rod of the RB supprting the top wingplane is just there to help bending the complete wing into that U shape with the help of the

wingendplates hinging outwards and downwards? this will produce a considerable pulling force on that rod..

V10Mike
V10Mike
0
Joined: 28 Jul 2010, 15:39

Re: Flexible wings controversy 2010

Post

Everybody seems to be assuming that the wing must be built with a linear deflection characteristic. However, there is no reason why you could not design a wing that met the regulation at 50Kg load, but at 55Kg went "over centre" to a lower position. Once the load was reduced it would snap back.

marcush.
marcush.
159
Joined: 09 Mar 2004, 16:55

Re: Flexible wings controversy 2010

Post

V10Mike wrote:Everybody seems to be assuming that the wing must be built with a linear deflection characteristic. However, there is no reason why you could not design a wing that met the regulation at 50Kg load, but at 55Kg went "over centre" to a lower position. Once the load was reduced it would snap back.
as you say ,snap ...but it does come back very smooth so at least the movement is dampened..

Richard
Richard
Moderator
Joined: 15 Apr 2009, 14:41
Location: UK

Re: Flexible wings controversy 2010

Post

Snap, just like your pants/knickers. You can pull the elastic up to a point at which it no longer stretches. Release some of the excess load and it returns to normal linear elastic behaviour.

Owen.C93
Owen.C93
177
Joined: 24 Jul 2010, 17:52

Re: Flexible wings controversy 2010

Post

You could create a material that has strong elasticity inside and a rigid material on top, when 50KG is applied all is well, but above that and the strong material slips (similar to velcro in properties) and then the wing is only limited by the elastic strength, then as the load decreases it returns to normal shape and the strong material comes back together rigid.


No idea how to create such a substance, but that's one long shot of how to do it.
Motorsport Graduate in search of team experience ;)

marcush.
marcush.
159
Joined: 09 Mar 2004, 16:55

Re: Flexible wings controversy 2010

Post

something with a behaviour like this is quite easy to design imagine having a spar running along the wingspan wich is high and stiff in the inner section towards the mandated 795mm and very thin around the 795 mm area.Of course that spar would course a severe reduction in stiffness in that area ,and if you even make this spar very thin but with a lot of shape ,you could even design something like a stiff and suddenly soft behaviour as soon as too much vertical load is applied OR a bending load (!) is applied coursed by the drag of the wing ...no fuzzy materials involved.
the thin airfoils RedBull is using in their front wing will not offer much resistance from their outer skins ...

jason.parker.86
jason.parker.86
1
Joined: 29 Mar 2009, 21:57

Re: Flexible wings controversy 2010

Post

Is it possible the wing has a camber, which is upwards at 0 speed but at high speed goes the other way... i.e. from a N to a U in terms of shape?

User avatar
fausto cedros
0
Joined: 30 Jan 2010, 10:22
Location: Brindisi, Italy

Re: Flexible wings controversy 2010

Post

Well, i think that the central area between the pylons is stiff itself.Maybe fibre can be arranged at the extent of having the desired non linear behaviour,isn't it?Another thing to take into account is the downforce distibution along the span, particularly in the vicinity of the endplates, and its nonlinear increase as the endplates lower to the ground.The nonlinearity of the process has likely required the tests we saw on the redbull pics, but i can bet that Macca will deliver such a wing in a short time.As we say here in south italy, they definitely know all the rabbits dens.
"Adding power makes you faster on the straights. Subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere" Anthony Bruce Colin Chapman

User avatar
fausto cedros
0
Joined: 30 Jan 2010, 10:22
Location: Brindisi, Italy

Re: Flexible wings controversy 2010

Post

Or maybe it has to do with the increase of the aerodynamic moment increasing with the speed and producing a torque that is cleverly employed by the wisely set fibers in the wing to lower a part of it. In this case you most likely would pass the kind of tests the FIA is requesting to comply.
"Adding power makes you faster on the straights. Subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere" Anthony Bruce Colin Chapman

User avatar
fausto cedros
0
Joined: 30 Jan 2010, 10:22
Location: Brindisi, Italy

Re: Flexible wings controversy 2010

Post

By the way, just brainstorming..
"Adding power makes you faster on the straights. Subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere" Anthony Bruce Colin Chapman

jason.parker.86
jason.parker.86
1
Joined: 29 Mar 2009, 21:57

Re: Flexible wings controversy 2010

Post

Or maybe its majic?

User avatar
fausto cedros
0
Joined: 30 Jan 2010, 10:22
Location: Brindisi, Italy

Re: Flexible wings controversy 2010

Post

Why was the RB wing in silverstone so precious...why it broke...why such a fuss in the team broke with it...we are circling round the truth...
"Adding power makes you faster on the straights. Subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere" Anthony Bruce Colin Chapman

User avatar
fausto cedros
0
Joined: 30 Jan 2010, 10:22
Location: Brindisi, Italy

Re: Flexible wings controversy 2010

Post

Every time you see a new technology, magic is the first word that comes to the mind...i thought the same the very day i discovered the existence of the f-duct.
"Adding power makes you faster on the straights. Subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere" Anthony Bruce Colin Chapman

User avatar
djos
113
Joined: 19 May 2006, 06:09
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: Flexible wings controversy 2010

Post

you can stop now! [-X
"In downforce we trust"

n_anirudh
n_anirudh
28
Joined: 25 Jul 2008, 02:43

Re: Flexible wings controversy 2010

Post

Shape memory alloys and equivalent structures might have been implemented...but unlikely..