Flexible wings controversy 2010

[Confused_Andy]

Scarbs just tweeted that there will be a new test in spa, 100kg with 20mm travel, upped from 50kg with 10mm travel.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

I think i have this wing figured out. This is my theory:
It's not about actuators or flexible carbon matrix. It's related to how stress is applied to the wing.
The FIA tests are based on simple bending loading, but it's doesn't cover axial loading of the wing, much less induced axial loads, or induced buckling, on individual elements much less.

Right, so how quickly can teams implement this? Martin Whitmarsh says Mclaren are "confused" by the whole thing which is at odds with their "engineering prowess"!
Its also very interesting to note how Ferrari, who have been behind Mclaren for the majority of this season, have implemented this flexi wing and have usurped Mclaren as no2 team behind Red Bull.
Could this Flexi wing indeed be a magic bullet?

[hollus]

Interesting. That's not making the rule any more stringent at all if bending is linear with load.
Is 100Kg enough?

[ringo]

I think the mysterious thing is that even if the vertical load-centers are at each end of the FW, while the support is in the middle, you cannot really see it bend, can you? This is why I'm sure the vertical deflection is due to the horizontal drag, achieved by very clever lay-up of the fiber layers.

Yes the drag is causing this, though you don't have to see the working parts bend much. You just need enough buckling to break the camel's back so to speak. Redbull found a balance where, just enough drag causes the second element to curve at a certain level of down-force.

My theory works well with the horizontal drag, and most of this drag is from that big third element, transmitted through that hinge.

Drag force applied to any other points, such as leading edge or end plate, is not in the right nature of force to flex the wing. It needs a mechanism to transmit the forces in the right places and forms.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Scarbs just tweeted that there will be a new test in spa, 100kg with 20mm travel, upped from 50kg with 10mm travel.

How can they do this mid season?

[Paul]

Because it's in the rules.

[ringo]

I think i have this wing figured out. This is my theory:
It's not about actuators or flexible carbon matrix. It's related to how stress is applied to the wing.
The FIA tests are based on simple bending loading, but it's doesn't cover axial loading of the wing, much less induced axial loads, or induced buckling, on individual elements much less.

Right, so how quickly can teams implement this? Martin Whitmarsh says Mclaren are "confused" by the whole thing which is at odds with their "engineering prowess"!
Its also very interesting to note how Ferrari, who have been behind Mclaren for the majority of this season, have implemented this flexi wing and have usurped Mclaren as no2 team behind Red Bull.
Could this Flexi wing indeed be a magic bullet?

whitmarsh says the lowered wings are up to a second a lap. I don't think they can do it without any teething problems. But they have the force rigs and simulators i guess.

[jason.parker.86]

What about this floor. Mention was made to some "special" fastners which could be moving the floor, albeit the floor itself is not bending but more the fastners that are holding it down?

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Because it's in the rules.

A new test thats "within the rules"?

I looked and have seen no figures....

[xpensive]

Remember MrM JET? "On the grounds of safety..."

[Richard]

I'm not sure going to 100kg & 20mm is going to change much. It would be more rigorous to move the test point to the endplate.

Actually, I like the fact the test isn't at the endplate. It allows a nice grey area for innovation between the existing test point and the end plate.

JET - The rules allow the scrutineers to amend the test regime as they see fit. It's already been mentioned already in the thread. Have a read of the rules and you shall find.

[fausto cedros]

What about this floor. Mention was made to some "special" fastners which could be moving the floor, albeit the floor itself is not bending but more the fastners that are holding it down?

Might be,it could maybe explain all the ride height chatter around the RB.But their car is draamtically changed since Silverstone. So it must be the wing (or the nosecone).More, i wonder how risky can the process described by Ringo be.Ratzenberger died because a ront wing came detatched.

[marcush.]

The actuator is allowed to move the flaps 6 degrees, why even if such an "Anti Roll Bar" was technically possible,
it wouldn't change the wing's stiffness very much.

you could have easily translate a 6° wing adjustment into a 90° bar rotation ,could you? .

Still the allowed 6° of movement puzzle me a bit ...how would the ECU be able to measure real movement? At best you could feed back actuator movement ,but to give prrof about real world flap movement you´d need a bit more than that..

still i feel this is not what the RB wing is all about.

[xpensive]

JET - The rules allow the scrutineers to amend the test regime as they see fit. It's already been mentioned already in the thread. Have a read of the rules and you shall find.

I'm not sure that's entirely true, but on the grounds of safety you can do pretty much what you want.

[scarbs]

you just have to look at the changes to rear wing tests a few years to see that a precedent has been set. At the end of the day, its regulation 3.16 regarding rigid bodywork that Red Bull is in contravention of, the subsequent test is in the rules, but the FIA reseve the right to alter or add tests as they see fit as it is the tests that enforce the technical regulations.