Hungarian GP 2010 - Hungaroring

[Merin]

Me too...but he's having a ball while learning..and wrecking cars in WRC.


Nice post, actually - http://desdirodeabike.wordpress.com/201 ... the-range/

Ok, I'm completely deviating from the thread here. Apologies!
Looking forward to beautiful Spa!

[Pandamasque]

About Schu-Rubens, Schu slightly over did, but it was simply racing. Ruthless, but nothing we haven't seen before. Rubens could've backed off, if he found it so dangerous!
Just my opinion.

I'm afraid anyone with such an opinion simply doesn't understand the most basic rules of circuit racing. You can move across the track freely in the corners, you can move once on the straight to defend your position. But whenever there is a car on the left or right, be it a corner or a straight you must leave it enough room (a car's width between yourself and the white line minimum).
Shoey got nothing for this in Canada and now had a very mild penalty, he might not even qualify high enough to be able to move 10 places down.
Looking at his previous record it was obviously deliberate. He should have been black flagged in this race with a warning of a permanent ban from professional racing in case he does it once more.

[WhiteBlue]

Well said 747heavy! The moderators usually delete inappropriate remarks. The rule of the board and the reasonable thing to do is respecting each other, regardless of the opinion other people have. Sensible people know that and will have their own opinion of those who cannot be bothered to show respect.

I'm sure we can do better than that. The least that you can do is to stop trolling the board with a justification for that manoeuvre and insulting peoples' intelligence.

In reality what you're saying is that if Rubens tries to overtake he's being dangerous, because that's all he's done there. You're not just trying to justify Schumacher's move, which is one thing in itself and you can certainly have views on, but you're also trying to say that Rubens is being dangerous at the same time. That's just madness I'm afraid. I'm at a loss to explain that any other way.

I don't think anybody tried to insult your intelligence, segedunum and certainly not the board's intelligence. One can easily have split opinions about Rubens Barichello's pass on Schumacher and be completely sane of mind. I see that your offending remark is now removed and that tells a lot about who is discussing things and who is misbehaving or trolling.

I have never justified Schumacher's driving in this thread. While the race was still running I have said that Schumacher deserves a penalty for not leaving Barichello enough room. Everybody can check that. Link to my post

It was then argued by the admin of this board that Schumacher made multiple moves on the start/finish straight by changing his line before Barichello took a dive to the inside. Still foto evidence posted by me and video evidence posted by Catalyst

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aIJLRbU-lDI[/youtube]

show that such reports about Schumacher changing his lines are in error. As the next picture clearly shows



Barichello drives his car on a straight into a gap that points directly into the wall. I'm not alone in the opinion that a racing driver in the seventies would have never done such a thing. It would have been potentially suicidal in one of the old cars to rely on someone else for space. And that is someone who is clearly ahead and may not have seen you or isn't expecting to have to give up his line on a straight piece of tarmac to make place. Place for you which you have not had in the first place, that is.

What follows next is a provoked dangerous move by Schumacher that earned him a penalty which I support and have supported before. Again a sane and calculating driver in a fragile old car would not have pushed his fellow driver within ten centimeters of a concrete wall. That is a bad risk to take for your life and for your fellow driver's life even when he did something foolish in the first place that provoked you. For me such thinking is the yardstick for clean and fair driving.

Schumacher should have steered left to give Rubens more room. Rubens should never have gotten more than half his car off the track and Schumacher still would have made his point that Barichello was driving dangerously. So I think in that situation Michael should have left more room and should have made a complaint about dangerous driving to race control. I recon that the stewards would have looked at it after the race and Rubens would have got the penalty if one was given.

That essentially is my considered opinion. It is supported by all the evidence that we have seen so far. I do not expect that I have to defend my mental health or my forum user status for taking that view.

[ESPImperium]

I have a reason for afformentioned manouver, Barrichello was just being told that his lap at the top of the Top Gear F1 board is gonna be beaten by The Stig.

[manchild]

Complete and unchanged B U S T A R D!

At least 3 race ban would be a good punishment - good enough to show that any replacement would score better results than his bustardness.

Once again, on which grounds would you punish him? Which section of the sporting code did he break?

FORMULA ONE SPORTING REGULATIONS

30) GENERAL SAFETY

30.16 Animals, except those which may have been expressly authorised by the FIA for use by security services, are forbidden on the track, in the pit lane, in the paddock or in any spectator area.

Can't remember him being related to security in any sense - ever!

[Goran2812]

WhiteBlue you are being completely irationall... :/

[WhiteBlue]

Hmm, how do you support such a claim?



This is what the FiA stewards said. § 16.1 says absolutely the same.

16.1 "Incident" means any occurrence or series of occurrences involving one or more drivers, or any action by any driver, which is reported to the stewards by the race director (or noted by the stewards and referred to the race director for investigation) which :
- necessitated the suspension of a race under Article 41 ;
- constituted a breach of these Sporting Regulations or the Code ;
- caused a false start by one or more cars ;
- caused a collision ;
- forced a driver off the track ;
- illegitimately prevented a legitimate overtaking manoeuvre by a driver ;
- illegitimately impeded another driver during overtaking.
Unless in the opinion of the race director it was completely clear that a driver was in breach of any of the above, any incidents involving more than one car will normally be investigated after the race.

The impediment apparently was not leaving enough space on the race track for Barichello to pass. I agreed with the penalty. Beyond that I still think Barichello should not have made that move on the inside in the first place. He should have gone round the outside for a safe maneuver.

[Giblet]

WB, as plain as day in the video that shows the entire view from Schumis rear wing, he moves once towards Rubens when he is about to come along side, then moves again towards him when he is on side and nearly past. Two moves, therefore illegal. Can you not see the second move?

Two separate moves, albeit in the same direction, but two moves it was.

Only one was allowed, and why he was punished.

[Goran2812]

Giblet,don't bother... there's no sence with him sometimes...
He admits Schuey did wrong,but can't admit Barichello did the only thing he could if he wanted to pass Michael... Going to the left wouldn't have worked WB! He'd be stuck on the outside line of the corner and wouldn't pass him...

[WhiteBlue]

WB, as plain as day in the video that shows the entire view from Schumis rear wing, he moves once towards Rubens when he is about to come along side, then moves again towards him when he is on side and nearly past.

I believe that you are not evaluating the movements of the cars correctly. From Rubens air box camera it is clear that Rubens makes several corrections which you falsely interprete as moves by Schumacher. Schumacher only steers left on the final approach to the pit wall. My still picture analysis shows that quite clearly and it is also visible from Rubens air box camera if you have that video. I have closely examined both views and I'm very certain of that.

Btw, nowhere in the steward's verdict do they say that Schumacher made several moves. They say he impeded a legitimate overtaking move. I read this that he did not leave Rubens enough space by driving straight towards the pit wall longer than he should have. You can see in my posted picture very clearly that even Schumacher would not have evcaded the pit wall if he had run straight at the point where Rubens dived inside. It follows that he had to evade left at some time but did not do it enough to satisfy the stewards.

[WhiteBlue]

Giblet,don't bother... there's no sence with him sometimes...
He admits Schuey did wrong,but can't admit Barichello did the only thing he could if he wanted to pass Michael... Going to the left wouldn't have worked WB! He'd be stuck on the outside line of the corner and wouldn't pass him...

Which is why that pass was unsafe in the first place and provoked Schumacher to more unsafe driving. Rubens should have tried round the outside or have backed off. The way he did it, he isn't much better than Schumacher. Unsafe.

[manchild]

WB, can't you see the ... white line parallel with the pitwall? Area between pitwall and the white line is NOT race track. Rubens was pushed all the way off the track. Fact that the area is made of same material doesn't mean nothing. Scumaker left him zero space on race track, and he was already passed by 50% length of the car. Adelaide 1996, Jerez 1997... remember?

[komninosm]

WB, as plain as day in the video that shows the entire view from Schumis rear wing, he moves once towards Rubens when he is about to come along side, then moves again towards him when he is on side and nearly past.

I believe that you are not evaluating the movements of the cars correctly. From Rubens air box camera it is clear that Rubens makes several corrections which you falsely interprete as moves by Schumacher. Schumacher only steers left on the final approach to the pit wall. My still picture analysis shows that quite clearly and it is also visible from Rubens air box camera if you have that video. I have closely examined both views and I'm very certain of that.

Btw, nowhere in the steward's verdict do they say that Schumacher made several moves. They say he impeded a legitimate overtaking move. I read this that he did not leave Rubens enough space by driving straight towards the pit wall longer than he should have. You can see in my posted picture very clearly that even Schumacher would not have evcaded the pit wall if he had run straight at the point where Rubens dived inside. It follows that he had to evade left at some time but did not do it enough to satisfy the stewards.

What you have to understand WB is that even if Shoemaker is moving towards the wall, when Rubens put his front wheels side by side with Shoemaker's rear wheels then Shoemaker had to stop immediately closing to the wall and go straight. Otherwise it's dangerous and pushing him off track. You just don't want to admit it cause you're a Kettle fanboy and he has done it 3 times this year (Hamilton, Alonso, Webber). You want to pretend it's OK and delude yourself. That's why you are meeting such strong opposition in the forum about it. Take care.

[vall]

Giblet,don't bother... there's no sence with him sometimes...
He admits Schuey did wrong,but can't admit Barichello did the only thing he could if he wanted to pass Michael... Going to the left wouldn't have worked WB! He'd be stuck on the outside line of the corner and wouldn't pass him...

Which is why that pass was unsafe in the first place and provoked Schumacher to more unsafe driving. Rubens should have tried round the outside or have backed off. The way he did it, he isn't much better than Schumacher. Unsafe.

Stop defending MS and trying to blame Rubens. By your logic, 90% of all passes should be considered unsafe This is a classic overtaking move - try take the inner racing line before the corner and out-brake the guy ahead.

[ringo]

Here is a proper evaluation. A move should be definite and unchanged; open loop if you will. Shumacher's move was varying based on his distance to barichello; a closed loop move, meaning many little tiny moves measured of rubens.
So he moved more than once and was penalized for it.

Rubens Barrichello: I've just went to see them. It was the very first time I saw the [television] image from the front and with it you can see his helmet is tucked to the side. So he is looking into my wheel - so he is at that point not choosing his line. He is choosing his line against my wheel - and that is what I complained about on the radio two laps before. I said, 'he is choosing his line too late.' And when you choose your line too late, then people touch and go up in the wall.

He made a mistake at the last corner, and came out much slower, so he knew I was coming. If I was him, I would have chosen to go right on the inside and let me go on the outside. But he was just measuring me by my wheel. So for me that is the wrong bit – even though I was already alongside.

So WB shumacher was the one picking lines, not Barichello who is following and has the right to pick as many lines as he wants.