Hungarian GP 2010 - Hungaroring

[andartop]

That was a fun race, the only thing missing was some rain during the final 5 laps to mess things up a bit more – though I’m glad it didn’t come!

Well done to Webber for a well deserved win and Alonso for keeping the spaceship at bay for 30+ laps!

Highlight of the race for me was not Schumi’s move but the stupidity of the safety car rules: I think something needs to be done asap, the simplest solution being closing the pitlane as soon as the SC is dispatched. It has been discussed before and various opinions posted, but I really really don’t want this championship to be decided by the timing of a safety car. The FIA is all about safety but this race once more highlighted how dangerous things can get with current SC rules and 24 cars storming in the pit lane all together…

Speaking of safety, the FIA needs to sit down with all stewards and go through some basic things. We’ve had different sorts of incidents this year and the inconsistency with which they have been dealt is surprising even for (poor) FIA standards. A few examples of what we’ve learned so far this season:
a)Racing in the pit lane through teams’ boxes is safe.
b)Entering the pit lane at any angle or by going all 4 wheels off track is safe.
c)Throwing things in the racing line is safe if you are frustrated.
d)Pushing someone against the wall is safe at the start of a race and in Canada, but is not safe in Hungary.
e)Pushing someone off the track is safe in corners but not in straights.

Before fellow forum members start shouting and swearing please bear in mind that I do think Schumi’s move was dangerous. I do also think that Rubens’ move was dangerous and unnecessary. Being 3 seconds per lap faster - as he proved straight afterwards - he might as well have made it stick on the outside. What I don’t understand is why something that was ok a few races ago was punishable today. Or the other way around. And why some safety rules have been completely overlooked – ie throwing steering wheels on the racing line – and others sparked 20+ pages of arguing and a 10 place grid penalty. Last but not least, should RBR receive a $100000 fine and be referred to the WMSC for Vettel’s helping Webber behind the SC?

[donskar]

@ andartop:

Last but not least, should RBR receive a $100000 fine and be referred to the WMSC for Vettel’s helping Webber behind the SC?

My point exactly. If NOT team orders, the result was certainly the same.

[Giblet]

Seeing things in absolutes is not how this works, and it can't be made to work that way.

Each incident has to be taken individually and judged accordingly.

The steering wheel argument is too far removed. Not that throwing the wheel is OK, but he didn't throw it on the racing line, it bounced there after a lazy huck out of the car.

The only reason I bring this up, is that the incident was taken in context on it's own, and judged. If Rubens hurled the wheel at a car, it would be a different story all together. Rubens has no history of doing things things like this, but MS has a history of running people off the road, and Ferrari has a history of team orders that bring the sport into public chaos.

I think that all the incidents you mentioned were dealt with accordingly. Your list is convoluted a touch, as some things that might not be safe per se, are not in the rules as forbidden and not easily punishable.

[andartop]

On the contrary, I would have thought rules and regulations need to be absolute when safety is concerned, and irrelevant of who the offender is or his history.. The steering wheel incident certainly looked more innocent than pushing someone against the wall, however the consequences could have been as serious, or not. Whether it was thrown or it bounced the result was the same; it ended up right on the racing line. Whether Schumi pushes someone against the wall in Canada or in Hungary the punishment or lack of punishment should be the same, and same goes for Vettel. As these manoeuvres were not even investigated in the recent past, and as Schumi and Rubens did not actually touch each other, I don't understand what criteria have been used to decide on a penalty. Not saying that there shouldn't be a penalty, just that penalties should be handed - or not handed - more consistently. Otherwise it is just not fair.

[Goran2812]

BTW Is Fred still critical on engines for the rest of the season?

Fred is very critical with engines!

[Pup]

On to other things, are we outraged that the stewards took 15 laps to penalize Vettel, or are we ok with it this time since he came out behind Alonso?

Just curious.

[djos]

@ andartop:

Last but not least, should RBR receive a $100000 fine and be referred to the WMSC for Vettel’s helping Webber behind the SC?

My point exactly. If NOT team orders, the result was certainly the same.

It was NOT Team Orders! It was caused by 2 things 1/ Vettel's Engineer was having outgoing radio issues and 2/ Vettel was not paying enuf attention - as he said himself he "was asleep" and thought there would be 1 more lap behind the SC!

[raymondu999]

All in all, this season's title battle (not so much the ontrack battle) is turning into a really gripping season isn't it? A little too much uncertainty for my taste though

[Rob W]

It's very funny that you say that because he has watched the video Schumacher himself has admitted that he was wrong. I wonder if his die hard fans will change their minds too?

Yes, I saw that too. Doh! .

Still, I would say Schumacher sat down with Ross and they agreed that it's not a good look to play innocent in the face of huge opinion to the contrary (not to mention the stewards' ruling). Schumacher's old style of handling things doesn't go down as well as it used to - and no-one is afraid of him either. When you're having as decidedly unremarkable comeback year as he is - far below what the team and, more importantly, the sponsors they got on board expected - it is not a good look to keep being in the media for old Schumy-style antics.

Schumy said:

"...but obviously I did not want to endanger him with my manoeuvre. If he feels this way, then sorry, that was not my intention."

The point here is: that is not an apology - it was merely an admission that it wasn't as clear cut as he thought. He's sorry Rubens thought it was his intention to danger him, not that he did it. That is a coward's apology - more a sign that he recognises it'll be history sooner if he concedes the issue rather than defend it as would be his normal nature.

[Mr Alcatraz]

BTW Is Fred still critical on engines for the rest of the season?

Fred is very critical with engines!

Does anyone have specific information on engines used/left?
A link perhaps.

[nipo]

I think that you cannot safely make an overtaking maneuver in that situation. You rely on another driver to yield and change his line for you. What if he did not see you?

You always rely on other driver when you're making a move.

Sums it up very nicely, pal. Nobody can overtake in WB's argument - every overtaking move constitutes a dangerous move.

[zenithbeach]

i just read this and i was wondering what you guys think? would disqualifying schumacher been a good example to "the young drivers"? in my opinion it would make them even more reluctant to try and overtake? dont get me wrong i thought it was a douche move too to keep going to the right but i dont think it was worth a black flag?

http://www.sportinglife.com/formula1/ne ... arian.html

i wonder if this had anything to do with their little history in 1991 lol

[Pedro]

Team-mate battles

Qualifying


Race - fastest laps


Race - average laps

(First laps, in-/out-laps and laps behind safety-car excluded)

Source: F1news.cz
http://f1news.cz/novinky/35385-jak-dopa ... -madarsku/

[gridwalker]

The point here is: that is not an apology - it was merely an admission that it wasn't as clear cut as he thought. He's sorry Rubens thought it was his intention to danger him, not that he did it.

Precisely : I knew that this would be the case from the moment that I saw news reports of an apology. It is a common linguistic trick that is used by politicians, celebrities and anyone who knows that their humility will be reduced down to a soundbite that is stripped of all context.

Apologising without an apology is far too common and is to be expected under circumstances where public displays of contrition are demanded by an outraged public.

Schumacher needs to learn that his Bernie-brokered days of golden boy in the "era of Ferrari" are long gone ...

[WhiteBlue]

Lol, now Bernie worries about Vettel for the German market and Alonso for Italy and the Spanish spoken world.