Mclaren Mercedes MP4-25

[donskar]

indeed. The F-Duct is actually forcing the team not to run as high df levels as others, due to its idea of staling. The mclarens is an integrated part of the car, thus cannot be removed.

Really? (That's a question - not sarcasm.) Is the F-Duct an integral part of the tub? Could they not come up with a complete engine cover rear wing assembly and cover(s) for the cockpit outlets?

[wesley123]

they could, but it isnt like the ferrari just an add on piece, the car is just designed for the F-Duct, removing it would simply need to resurface the airbox. Though for monza it would be very usefull, removing the tailfin, as it is draggy. As i said, in monza McLaren should use their strengths, the high top speed. Spa is an similair circuit like Canada, where the mlcaren was incredible. McLaren always went well there, and i doubt it will be different this year, and just to say it, they must win there and in italy, else their chanpionship is over.

[ringo]

The tail fin is not draggy. It makes the car more stable under braking and turn in.
Too much makes the car harder to change direction.
They can remove the f duct pretty easily.

[Shaddock]

indeed. The F-Duct is actually forcing the team not to run as high df levels as others, due to its idea of staling. The mclarens is an integrated part of the car, thus cannot be removed.

Really? (That's a question - not sarcasm.) Is the F-Duct an integral part of the tub? Could they not come up with a complete engine cover rear wing assembly and cover(s) for the cockpit outlets?

They could, but I don't think they have a non F-Duct rear wing to slap on the car. There development path has taken them down the blown rear wing route from day 1.

[segedunum]

They can remove the f duct pretty easily.

They haven't done it so far............

I've always believed that the F-duct and this blown rear wing have taken them down a different development path. The more pertinent question is can they run a rear wing without the F-duct? I don't believe they can.

[thestig84]

Your right they cant run without it. Martin Whitmarsh said so when they ran it at Monaco.

[gibells]

indeed. The F-Duct is actually forcing the team not to run as high df levels as others, due to its idea of staling. The mclarens is an integrated part of the car, thus cannot be removed.

Really? (That's a question - not sarcasm.) Is the F-Duct an integral part of the tub? Could they not come up with a complete engine cover rear wing assembly and cover(s) for the cockpit outlets?

They could, but I don't think they have a non F-Duct rear wing to slap on the car. There development path has taken them down the blown rear wing route from day 1.

I seem to recall they rang a non F ducted engine cover in Bahrain when they where worried that it would get banned. I'll troll it out.

[donskar]

I find it very interesting/intriguing that a team as technically strong as McL could have created the F Duct, but (to paraphrase some earlier posters), they might have created a monster they can not control -- meaning it may have led them down a false development path. It also says a lot about the cost and complexity of F1 aero that McL might not have the technical firepower to explore multiple paths simultaneously. To the more technically astute out there: does this scenario I'm guessing at sound reasonable?

[ringo]

They can remove the f duct pretty easily.

They haven't done it so far............

I've always believed that the F-duct and this blown rear wing have taken them down a different development path. The more pertinent question is can they run a rear wing without the F-duct? I don't believe they can.

Why?
I think they can, but if they do, they lose the benefit of it.
In the same way, you wont see redbull without theirs now.

[thestig84]

They can remove the f duct pretty easily.

They haven't done it so far............

I've always believed that the F-duct and this blown rear wing have taken them down a different development path. The more pertinent question is can they run a rear wing without the F-duct? I don't believe they can.

Why?
I think they can, but if they do, they lose the benefit of it.
In the same way, you wont see redbull without theirs now.

They cant remove it. Like I said above artin Whitmarsh said so when they ran it at Monaco.

Also you say we wont see redbull without theirs....err we just saw them without it in Hungary! Ferrari also took it off...why didnt Mclaren??? because it is integral to the 25.

[PlatinumZealot]

Why can't they remove it? That doesn't sound right. They remove it when the car is in the garage all the time.

The car is just slower if they remove it.

[Confused_Andy]

They cant remove it. Like I said above artin Whitmarsh said so when they ran it at Monaco.

Also you say we wont see redbull without theirs....err we just saw them without it in Hungary! Ferrari also took it off...why didnt Mclaren??? because it is integral to the 25.

They needed everything they could get at Hungrey to claw back the Ferrari and Redbull, the top speed advantage of the Mclaren with the F-Duct was their only chance of being in the top 4.

[thestig84]

Why can't they remove it? That doesn't sound right. They remove it when the car is in the garage all the time.

The car is just slower if they remove it.

Of course they can physically take it off!! Im pretty sure you knew I meant they cant run the car effectively without it rather than it being some immovable object!

The exact Whitmarsh quote was live on the BBC but I found this one from the Monaco press conference which is similar.

Whitmarsh: It is less of a benefit obviously. F-duct is something which will work better on the long straight than a circuit like this. It is a standard part of our car. We don't have a non F-duct variety to fit in any case. Its deployment is less significant than it was, for instance, in Barcelona.
http://www.grandprix.com/race/r826fripc.html

[Shaddock]

McLaren haven't developed a 'mature' wing for the 25 without the F-Duct installed. All the other teams on the grid had the winter developing non F-duct rear wings, and then had too start a new development path with a blown wing.

The reason why they probably haven't bothered with developing a non F-Duct wing is the few, slow circuits on the calendar - (Monaco and Hungary) where is would be required.

[ringo]

Why?
I think they can, but if they do, they lose the benefit of it.
In the same way, you wont see redbull without theirs now.

They cant remove it. Like I said above artin Whitmarsh said so when they ran it at Monaco.

Also you say we wont see redbull without theirs....err we just saw them without it in Hungary! Ferrari also took it off...why didnt Mclaren??? because it is integral to the 25.

You're back tracking here, then why did you disagree with me, if you believe it can be physically removed as well?