How do you think drivers have changed?

[747heavy]

=D> good post AiI - hat´s off to you

I may not share all your sentiments in regards of Schumacher and Senna (and I was/be a fan of the later), but you made some valid point.
Will think about it for a bit.

To illustrate what I wanted to say let´s use Hamiltons antics in Australia.
What did he? A burn out and a bit of sideways driving to entertain the fans - is that such a big deal/bad thing? It´s not that he drove a mother with 3 kids in the car of the road on a highway off ramp.
I think some things get blown out of poportion today, by a media searching for headlines.
And some things are just not anyones business, not everything belongs into the public domain. IMHO

I did not want to come across as somebody advocating drink driving, reckless driving on track or drug abuse.

[xpensive]

There's a wonderful story about Mario Andretti and Bobby Unser travelling to Italy for the 1968 GP, Mario to drive for Lotus and Bobby for BRM. Nobody there to meet them at the airport of course and getting lost on the way to Monza with their rental, arguing over who to drive and/or read the map.

Imagine Hamilton and Button missing Friday practice thru getting lost in Singapore traffic?

[dumrick]

I watch F1 since 1982 and fail to understand why old school racing is associated with dirty driving and tricks. Quite opposite, I remember that, back when people died in racing cars, there was usually a lot more respect while defending position: people could and would swerve across the track to break the tow, but by no chance they would deliberately put someone against the wall. Of course, it was easier then to take the position back, so it wasn't also as important as now not to lose it.

Just a classic example to be compared to the Schumacher/Barrichello duel, same place, 24 years ago. That 3rd move is one of the best ever, IMO.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AeemlgJkjUs[/youtube]

[sknguy]

The Hungaroring incident is a special case though, I don't consider that defensive move a typically competitive maneuver. I’ve watched Schui a long time. And he is a very talented diver. But narcissist is all that ever comes to mind when I see stuff like that. When asked his opinion during the broadcast Coulthard said of Michael that he “never knew when to quit”. The idea that “winning is everything” means something quite different to a person with a narcissistic personality disorder.

Anyway,

Today it feels like drivers are more whining on the radio than actually driving the hell out of the car. It feels like we get a generation who complains every little incident. I am not talking about Barrichelo now.

I don't know, I think this is one of those apples and oranges comparisons. The nature of formula one is very different now than what it was back in the day. We have a lot more race access to the teams now. The money is bigger. The pressures to perform are different too. It's just a different time and circumstance. For me it's just generational change. This isn't your father's F1.

[segedunum]

Drivers arguing about their physios being allowed on to the grid. One need not say any more than that.

[mep]

One thing hasn't been mentioned here yet.
Girls.
They bellong to race cars and real mans.
Furthermore they are nice for the fans and good for advertising teams and sponsors.
I have heard (don't know if its true) that pit babes are no longer allowed in pits for a couple of years now.

[747heavy]

Hi mep,
why I agree with your sentiments, being a man
They (pit babes) are only nice/interesting for the males/man in the public/crowed.
As most companies( e.g. Bridgestone) these days try to sell there products to both males and females, they have shyed away from advertising that only attracts one part of the population.
Sad, but this are the new times

[PlatinumZealot]

I think today's drivers are:

Healthier
Smarter
Fitter
Faster
Stronger
More consistent
(Maybe less ballsier)

I think they are much better than the guys of old. That is how it is with sports. You can't expect Fred Flintstone to be be a better driver than Fernando Alonso can you? hehe

[andrew]

I think they are much better than the guys of old. That is how it is with sports. You can't expect Fred Flintstone to be be a better driver than Fernando Alonso can you? hehe

True, but Fred Flinstone would be more entertaining (and honest) than Fernando Alonso.

[747heavy]

I think today's drivers are:

Healthier
Smarter
Fitter
Faster
Stronger
More consistent
(Maybe less ballsier)

I think they are much better than the guys of old. That is how it is with sports. You can't expect Fred Flintstone to be be a better driver than Fernando Alonso can you? hehe

You made some good/valid points IMO

I would agree with the healthier and fitter statement
also with the more consistent, as for me this is a function of fitness, but also due to the fact that the cars are much more reliable today (in general)
instead of smarter I would maybe use more knowledgeable, but agree with the point

not sure what you mean with stronger (physical or mentaly) ?
I think that some of the older cars are more physical demanding to drive in terms of steering forces etc., also there was a different level of skill/finess requiered.
Think about gearshifts, you could overrev an engine or blow it up. -> suffering in the championship as a result with an DNF, does into the consistensy score
Today with pedal shift and antistall, that´s a fairly straight forward task. IMHO

And I´m not sure if we can say, the are faster. Sure if you take absolute laptime as a criterium, then yes. But maybe some of the current (not all) generation drivers would be scared to death if ask to drive one of the old cars as fast, as these guys did at the time.

It´s a different ballgame IMHO, not so easy to compare because of the great influence of the car/equipment to the overall result.
It´s more easy to compare 100m running or 400m swimming for that matter.

[marcush.]

for sure todays cars are a lot less demanding .

does anyone remember MS climbing out of the car winning the race and barely breaking a sweat ? I still hav ethe pics in my mind ,schumacher in perfect conditon like he was coming from a cruise around the block standing on the rostrum with Barrichello or Irvine completely knackered ...

[strad]

Au contraire andrew,once upon a time F1 was dangerous, slipstreming at Spa and Monza was no buisness for the faint-hearted, but the Amons an Petersons had no problems, one false move at 300 km/h was ending up in a tree or worse.

Today's situation have made drivers so complacent about safety its sickening.

Oh so right..it's so safe now, that it is more dangerous than before..Mark my words,,Today's drivers commit actions and do things based on their false feeling of security,,When it happens next time, it will be BIG..55 Le Mans big or 73 Silverstone with multiple deaths this time.
F1 should and needs to be deadly dangerous...just to keep them honest..so to speak.

[Dragonfly]

IMHO drivers are slowly turning into a biological remote controls by whose help race engineers race each other hidden behind a wall of computer screens.

[DaveKillens]

I started watching racing back in the late 60's. Back then, things were completely different, much different.

Back then, the level of professionalism wasn't as high as today. In fact, the term "sports medicine" wasn't even invented. And weird as it seems today, the use of tobacco and alcohol was condoned almost everywhere.

But the cars and safety conditions have improved in quantum leaps. Back then, if you had a bad crash, odds were you were going to die. It was that simple. Driver protection consisted of goggles and helmet, and the tracks had minimal first aid support. If you crashed, there wasn't a doctor by your side within 2 minutes, neither was there a helicopter on standby to airlift you to the nearest hospital.

And what is not mentioned yet, the law took a different perspective on threats and assaults. More often than not, if a driver did something dumb and dangerous, he was probably going to get his lights punched out very soon by either an angry driver or his pit crew. Basically, the drivers policed themselves.

Now leap forward to today, and now we see dedicated athletes, who started their careers at a very young age and intend to reap in a huge bundle of cash. The racing is their sole income, and that's about all they focused on. It wasn't too long ago when most drivers had full time jobs elsewhere, and raced on weekends.

One thing I can say for sure, that if Michael Schumacher attempted such a move back in those days, he would have been on the receiving end of a physical assault.

If I could sum up the differences in one statement, it's that back then almost everyone involved in the sport were sportsmen, interested in participating in this sport. But today, they are professional athletes where the bottom line is not personal satisfaction, but only results. It's not how you get there, the only thing is that you get there.

[747heavy]

=D> great post Dave =D>
IMHO it corrospondends with the real world/business maxxim of "there is no bad profit - just profit" of today.
For better or worse, thats something everybody has to decide for themself.
I like the "drivers/teams policing themself" part of your discription, if you like to call it that, there was an universally accepted ethos/ethics present at the time.
I wonder how much the amount of money involved in the sport has to do with the change.
That does not just goes for F1 but for most sports in general.

Thanks for your post Dave