Mercedes GP - Inauguration and 1st season

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

What 2010 has demonstrated is that Loic Bigois was not the main driver behind last years success. Previous to that his record is even more average.

[xpensive]

My point is that university studies teaches you to behold and analyze technical phenomenons in a scientific and methodical manner, like in the case of Rory Byrne, Adrian Newey, Neil Oatley, Gordon Murray, Steve Nichols, Patrick Head or John Barnard (college).

Management and administration is a completely different matter, being a technical geek doesn't help you much in that area, but empathy and common sense does, where Ross Brawn and Pat Symonds has been most successful over the years.

I think Newey's Williamses were more famous for other tecnical innovations than any radical aero developments,
while Loic Bigois time with Ligier/Prost did not xactly set the world of fire.

[marcush.]

comeon ...you can not say you could only analyse in a proper wasy after being teached so in university..or you could only learn to read in school.. or whatever ..thats a claim you would have to prove ,and I doubt this was possible .
humans are individual so there are also individual ways to aquire knowledge...but lets come back to MERCEDES GP.

[xpensive]

Matter of fact I can, see it everyday among my team who have a proper university degree or not, at F1T as well.

As for Mercedes, I think there will be a major reshuffle of staff at the end of the year, recruiting a design manager.

[marcush.]

thank you so much expensive ,I will work hard to get hold of a degree ,maybe I will be able to give better founded contributions here in the future..

[xpensive]

Sorry marcush, my conclusion was that you already had one and was just trying to be modest? My mistake.

[marcush.]

I work as an engineer ,yes.I have a degree,no. Actually I spent some time in university to attend lessons that were of interest to me and my work but I never took the time
to go the whole road...and I know it would have helped to get some job I fancied, earn more money ..so I would not recommend to take the route I chose..
But don´t worry ..I´m fine, no offense.- I should have done it the proper ways ,I know..

[Shaddock]

zander is now somewhere else ,is starup member of a company nothing to do with F1...

http://www.trive.mobi/
situated in munich

so maybe he wanted to come back to germany ?

back to merc... to even think of engineers available in Stuttgart capable of supervising a F1 project at this level with the prospect of instant sucess is
a bit too romatic... the passion is already in Formula 1 ,you wo´t find it somewhere in a engineering department in a big company languishing to be released to such a project..


they will try to hire or a t least get input from sources they trust ... so what
are their connections?
Haug ,as Mercedes man knows a lot of guys from Mclaren ..so ex man McCoglin would be a candidat ex Barnard protege... surely knows the trade..had insight into the toyota project last yearthrough StaefnGP involvement

Rory Byrne..I ´m sure they paid him a visit more than once and will try to get hold of at least his consultancy...if only for the old times when he was the brains behind all the successful cars.

Pat Symmonds ..the guy for the pits ...that would be the guy to get on top of the tyre trouble ....
Or Vasselon ,but is he to leaver Toyota,I´d think he is hoping for them to take over the HRT outfit end of next year?

I know Rory Bryne was still on Ferrari's payroll, 3 years after he officially left the company. I'm not sure if he still has this special 'consultancy' role of fishing in South Africa.

[tok-tokkie]

Rory Byrne is married to a Thai woman. They live there. His interest is scuba diving. I don't think he would go back to much involvement in F1 - he has moved on from that phase of his life.

[segedunum]

The problem is the team lost 400 staff last year and that has an influence on things.
The problem is not knowing if the team will exist in 2010.

They went through staff reductions after Honda pulled out and throughout 2009. That was nothing new. There was uncertainty about whether the team would exist in 2009, nevermind 2010, they became a winning team in 2009 and they were still worried about existing in 2010? Mercedes took them over and established their future, and yet they were still worried about 2010 to the extent that they fouled up their car?

I can't buy any of that as a viable set of excuses. As soon as they arrived in 2009 and started winning they would have been a hell of a lot more confident about their future than they were.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

They went through staff reductions after Honda pulled out and throughout 2009. That was nothing new. There was uncertainty about whether the team would exist in 2009, nevermind 2010, they became a winning team in 2009 and they were still worried about existing in 2010? Mercedes took them over and established their future, and yet they were still worried about 2010 to the extent that they fouled up their car?

I can't buy any of that as a viable set of excuses. As soon as they arrived in 2009 and started winning they would have been a hell of a lot more confident about their future than they were.

Segedunum,

I tire greatly of having to explain everything in minute detail. If you understand the timescale and the F1 car development gestation period why would you argue?

1)Honda started development of the 2009 car in 2007.
2)It had one of the longest development cycles ever and incorporated clever fron wing and diffuser arrangements.
3)Honda announced its withdrawal from the sport on december the 5 2008, with the 2009 car having been fully developed under Honda's 220 million dollar budget.
4)The actual Brackley base shed 120 jobs initially and all of their engine department was closed with 300 odd staff leaving there.
5)They recieved an engine that was far better than they had before, Rubens going as far as to say the difference was "night and day".
6)The installation of the engine did create problems and explains why they were so late to getting testing.
7)When the season got under way, EVERYONE could see the Brawn's were on a different planet.

This is critical that you understand segedunum.

This was not because of what happened from December 2008 to March 2009. Its exactly because of Honda's investment that Brawn had the car to go out and destroy the opposition with for the first half of 2009. If you argue this, then no sense will come of me trying to explain.

When further cuts to staff were made, the car's advantage disappeared and work on the 2010 car was started, albeit with a very limited amount of resource due to their financial constraints.

Again it is critical that you understand, that a team fighting for the championship in 2009, with half the man power it had in 2008, cannot hope to get a car as good in 2010.

9) Mercedes stepped in, with the 2010 car in FINAL stages of development, scale models had already 100's of hours of wind tunnel time, as per Brawn himself at Abu Dhabi.

10) The car was designed with an inherrant flaw based on some tyre specs that Brawns team got wrong(they admit that)Further to this the cars aero concept has failed to work.

11) So from November the 8th 2009 to February 2010 Mercedes could only take stock of what it had, with the time too far gone to make any meaningful impression of its 2010 car.

12)Mercedes are staying for 3 years, all speculation is from media contorting what CEO Zetsche said about success.
"To win is a condition. The best or nothing at all is what our forefathers wanted and this is what we strive for today. Mercedes GP is no different, to win immediately is expecting alot but our plan is for 3 years"

13)Homologation and testing restrictions

So to surmise then, Mercedes are in a position where it can only paper over certain cracks inherited by a team that where in a state of flux.


And to compare December 2008 to November 2009 is not fair at all. Mercedes did not recieve a peach of a car that was developed to within an inch of its life at a cost of a quarter of a billion dollars.
Maybe you think Brawn had that 250 million to develop on the W01?


Mercedes will come good, give them a chance and dont judge them on a car designed during a tumultuous period of time for the team on a budget that the new teams probably have.
Considering that, you have to say they actually did ok!
They may not be champions in their time in F1, which could be as short as 3 years.
But they will put up a better show of it in 2011. Of that I will put my house on

[PlatinumZealot]

Rory Byrne is married to a Thai woman. They live there. His interest is scuba diving. I don't think he would go back to much involvement in F1 - he has moved on from that phase of his life.

So why the emphasis the wife being Thai woman? Are Thai women aligned with certain things in Europe?

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Rory Byrne is married to a Thai woman. They live there. His interest is scuba diving. I don't think he would go back to much involvement in F1 - he has moved on from that phase of his life.

So why the emphasis the wife being Thai woman? Are Thai women aligned with certain things in Europe?

Why?

Tok-Tokkie merely pointed out that He is married to a Thai lady, and that his preference for Scuba diving means he will probably live in Thailand.
For purposes of this discussion, Rory Byrne was touted as a potential "brain" to not only sort out the W01 as a car, but also Mercedes as a team.
Living in Thailand at Byrne's age with his wife and that hobby would make such a move difficult, No?

Will you reconsider the tone of your post?

[myurr]

@JohnsonsEvilTwin +1

I'm concerned that the ingredients at Mercedes still aren't quite right in order to have a stellar 2011, but hopefully they'll come good. The more teams capable of fighting for the championship the better.

[xpensive]

@JohnsonsEvilTwin +1

I'm concerned that the ingredients at Mercedes still aren't quite right in order to have a stellar 2011, but hopefully they'll come good. The more teams capable of fighting for the championship the better.

I couldn't disagree more, I think that Daimler made a miscalculation of biblical proportions when they bought Brawn, thinking they paid their way directly into the winners circle at a bargain price, at a time when others were getting out.

Dragging the 7-time WDC out of retirement underlines they were thinking with their hearts, or arses, take your pick.

They will never beat McLaren, not in a million years.