Mercedes GP - Inauguration and 1st season

[marcush.]

in all honesty ,I have to admit I´m prepared to give him credit for another 3 or 4 races in 2011.
It might be the same romantic blindness that already catched me severely with USGP ,but hey ,its not my team ,I´m not at the helm ,so it´s rather easy to keep faith..

call me an idiot ..no problem,I will take the
words with grace when it is a sure thing that he has failed....and I will not bitch around if he miraculously pulls something out of the hat either.

[xpensive]

Let me paint you and JET this picture marcush;

Imagine that Norbert Haug had called MS on the phone at this time last year saying;

"Can I interest you in taking part in a new Mercedes ambition? We are about to buy this xisting F1 team, can't tell you which it is, more than that it's a long-term rebuilding project, aiming to win in three years from now, how about it?"

How do you figure the 7-time WDC with nothing to prove would have responded to such a proposal?

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

BrawnGP, or Honda, dumped development on their 2008 car very very early to take advantage of getting a jump on everyone else with the rule changes, and hit the mark rather well. The silver bullet was the advance time of development plus the DDD. Take either of these away, and they would not have been a title challenger.

+1
Indeed, but why is it that some people expect a car the equal of the BGP001 given that it had half the lead time in development, half the budget(probably a third) and half the staff.
This was never going to happen.

Schumacher is a darned good driver, but to expect him to comeback and starting cleaning up in said car(W01) is fantasy. Haug Brawn etc are all fully aware of this.
Which is why the acid test will be 2011, and even then I dont think the first half will see them winning. Not until the effects of the resource restriction affect all the teams.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Let me paint you a picture Xpensive.

Haug comes a knocking, and says to Schumi, we have a project in F1. We
Just bought a skint outfit that has had half its staff shed and a car thats been on the drawing board for 5 months(in november).

Do you think Schumacher to be that dumb that he doesnt see the team for what it is? Half of what came before?
Thats putting very little faith in an intelligent man.

[xpensive]

While we're at it JET, how about this one, Haug goes to MS;

"Look, with moustach-money I've bought this half-arsed Brackley-outfit which lucked in on MrM's whim to upset the apple-cart by allowing a funny diffuser this season. It's really dog-puke all the way, not even the new WDC wants to drive for us anymore, but I have 20 MEUR here in my pocket. What do you say?"

[Dragonfly]

While we're at it JET, how about this one, Haug goes to MS;

"Look, with moustach-money I've bought this half-arsed Brackley-outfit which lucked in on MrM's whim to upset the apple-cart by allowing a funny diffuser this season. It's really dog-puke all the way, not even the new WDC wants to drive for us anymore, but I have 20 MEUR here in my pocket. What do you say?"

So Haug has taken 13 MEUR commission?

[xpensive]

Right Dragon, here we go;

MS:20 M, is that what's on the table?

NH: Swear to God, that's all there is!

MS: What's that bulge under your belt then?

NH: I'm just fat, you know that, don't you?

MS: Let's see, aha, there's another 13 up for grabs, is it now?

NH: No please Michael, that's my kid's tuition money!

MS: Couldn't care less, you can keep three, but that's it, get outa here!

[NewtonMeter]

JET and xpensive, have you guys ever thought of adapting your performance for the stage?

[marcush.]

I´m pretty sure the painting dished out to Schumacher was a lot more colourful than reality is.but the guy was near the heartbeat of ferrari till recently so he just has to have an idea how Brawngp compared to Ferrari...And for sure he has not signed first and then looked into it.
tbh Schumacher was the one who claimed to be in it for winning a 8th title but in the same context he already was stating that 2010 was not the year for it to happen.
To me the outfit is entirely on track ,apart from :Schumacher struggling to bag the same amount of points compared to Rosberg and the car simply not quick enough to win on merit.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

JET and xpensive, have you guys ever thought of adapting your performance for the stage?

Shakespeare would be proud!

Truth is Schumacher is on less than Hamilton or alonso and he brings more to the table in terms of Sponsorship appeal. Brawn had little or no sponsorship last year, even MIG investments paid them less than this year.
So what his salary has to do with the issue surrounding the team is actually a misnomer.

If it wasnt worth Mercedes while, Schumacher would still be kniting in Switzerland.

[xpensive]

Right;
NH: So, for how long are you planning to sit knitting in this tax-haven then?
MS: Until I can finish this scarf for Jean.
NH: Jean don't need no scarf, he's banging that Chinese actress and is happy with that!
MS: Oh, perhaps you need a scarf then?
NH: I need no friggin scarf, but I need a tool powerful enough to persuade the moustache to let me do what Mario did!
MS: Aha, what's innit for me?
NH: 20 mill up front and a percentage on every sucker we can lure in on this!
MS: Do I need to workout, like outrun dogs on the beach for the photos?
NH: Naah, this one will be easy, we already have Ross, the engine and the car, come on!
MS: Can my brother tag along?
NH: No.

[Ciro Pabón]

Ciro: Look at this thread, Steve-o. I'd say: if you have to criticize Mr. Schumacher, after all, a popular subject, couldn't you do it for something he has done while in Mercedes GP?

Steven: And why should they do that?

Ciro: Oh, you know, don't play games with me... It's so easy to beat him!

Steven: Ridiculously easy.

Ciro: It's true his agent has had a hard time getting money. Did you read that?

Steven: Of course I did.

Ciro: Pathetic! I can go on: it's true Rosberg has driven better... and very true!

Steven: Are you sure? Some disagree.

Ciro: Oh, puh-leeze. It's true he's old, it's true he is having a very hard time finding his sporting form, which, to me, after ticking past 50, is not a surprise.

Could you believe I pant a little after minute 75, when playing soccer? Who is going to spend time destroying my way to play soccer now?

Steven: So?

Ciro: I say: too much spare time in their hands, I say: let's make them work! I say: let's force them to write something that requires reading and the use of half their collective brain!

Steven: But, Ciro, c'mon. There is so much to destroy in public figures!

Ciro: Well, yes, but it's so hard to find something to rescue when they go down! Sometimes I think one person should treat others in the same way he wishes to be treated when he goes down. That should replace the golden rule.

Steven: Gosh, are you romantic these days or what?

Ciro: Frankly, you know perfectly well that you cannot write the story of a man until 50 years have passed and then, nobody cares. I love history, so I cannot understand why somebody doesn't. You could call me a historymaniac. Give me facts, not opinions: that enrichs the forum.

Steven: Excuse me?

Ciro: Look! This part is devoted to imaginary dialogs, and is not even funny!

Steven: Well, after all le Formule Un is a mixture of sport and entertainement. We have to give some leeway.

Ciro: Oh, I know. However, I cannot avoid to find it's a tad sad that after trampling so many people you get trampled, but that's life. Those posters don't even get the basics of tragedy. Feuerbach escapes them. Remember? Men creates immortality?

Steven: Feuerbach? Isn't he the communist guy with the funny beard that you showed me the other day?

Ciro: The same. BTW, trample, trample, trample... nice word. In spanish is "pisotear", which comes from "piso", floor. It means you cannot go lower, I guess.

Steven: Yeah, I know, it's when people starts to mock you. It can be nasty when they have feared you...

Ciro: ... or feared your egotism. Have you take a hard look at drivers? I mean: a hard one? The best are always the maniac ones. You know, I always have a moment of doubt before taking a curve a 200 kph, remember the feeling?

Steven: You're falling in the same trap of those guys in the thread.

Ciro: Yeah, you're right. However, in the end, it's with threads like this that historians will have to make history. Nothing goes off the Internet, ever. After reading the "easy-ism" of those posts, I'd say a historian has to become a poet or he will become extremely boring when writing about Schumi. His story is good, you know?

Steven: Yeah, a quarter of the site is devoted to fans or haters.

Ciro: As I said, I find that a tad sad. Where are the analysts and the poets among them?

Steven: Well, people do different things in life. Any more reports? I have to work.

Ciro: Of course... take a look at this one! My daughter laughed for a while... isn't life beautiful, Steve?

(lights fade)

[andrew]

andrew: this is getting weird.
andrew: yes I agree, it is getting weird.
andrew: wtf is going on?

See, I too can have imaginary converstions with myself and extract the michael.

In attampt to get this thread back on track without it being cluttered up by sarcasim (which is the lowest form of wit ), here is some actual news of Merc GP. I don't know if this has been covered and make no apologies if I am repeating a previous post.

http://motorsport.nextgen-auto.com/Merc ... udget.html

I would think that almost abandoning this years car and focusing on next years would be the only sensible thing to do. This years car is erm well, crap and has not met expectations. Spend a bit more time (and money) on next years car and they might have a chance. Any other thoughts/comments?

[segedunum]

If you truly belive this, then you have not read my posts, where I have used source after source, timelines and quotes to help paint a picture.

You want to blame the Brawn team's lack of a firm budget in 2009 for everything that's happened in 2010. Alas, you can't because the budget available for the technical department didn't change. They fired a few PR people and physios which is why the resource reduction is bollocks.

You are also trying to paint the picture that Mercedes need to build a new car well in advance for every year, which is nonsense. The RB5 evolved into the RB6 and they're having very little trouble. Mercedes simply haven't managed to evolve a very good 2009 car into 2010.

Yet you broadside Mercedes for paying Schumacher top dollar. How much revenue has Schumacher brought to the team just by being there?

Brilliant. At best they might have broken even, but how many of those sponsors turned up off the back of Mercedes? The fact is that Schumacher is taking up a large chunk of their budget which you're trying to claim they haven't got, so that's why they're dropping back with every race.

Please mate, do yourself a favour and actually understand the problems. You say they have reverted to type, conveniently bypassing all that happened on december the 5th 2008 to today.

They started winning after December 5th 2008. If you can't build off the back of winning with a stable set of rule changes to evolve from 2009 into 2010, well......

This basically sums your posts up, no facts, just baseless assumptions and wild speculation, BAWS for short.

Errrrrrr, right. The reason they had the Honda Earth car was because they couldn't get sponsors on that car or retain what they had. The reason why Brawn was all white for a year, aside from very small Mig logos and the odd appearance by Virgin, was because they couldn't get sponsors even when they were winning and had TV time. Christ, even Sauber has made a better job of that this year.

The Henkel situation showed something was truly rotten in paradise. Henkel were a sponsor at McLaren as a result of a partnership with Mercedes. I don't think it would have been beyond Nick Fry and the people at that team to get their contact details right. To describe that as amateur hour doesn't quite cut it.

And the term "languishing" really does not sum up Mercedes this year. Podiums are not languishing.

They'll be exceptionally lucky to finish fourth. They're the thick end of two seconds off the leading pace consistently and they're going to have no development for the rest of the year.

Using 2007 and 2008 to back up your claims of Mercedes GP being rubbish is saying nothing to me.

1. They're the same technical team minus a couple of Japanese and Zander who left in 2009.

2. You're trying to say that they've dropped back this year because of a lack of budget.

3. Even when they had a reasonable budget after 2006, when they started winning last, they produced a dog of a car with inherent design flaws.

Conclusion? To try and blame a lack of budget for the teams's woes cannot be backed up, especially since the technical department has stayed intact with Honda's resources - which you claim as a great deal for Mercedes because they got it for 'free'.

Those years Brawn was taking stock of his team, hiring and firing and working towards 2009. Still you cannot see that.

Given that they started winning in 2006 then this should not have been necessary. Do you not see that? They've rinsed and repeated for this year. The excuse you're giving is that they've constantly been rebuilding, which is nonsense. Their team is still clearly not right.

Oh the front wing? only the most important bit of aero on the car! So they got lucky because of the DDD AND the front wing? That means his team got it spot on, not "lucky" at all. The culmination of 15 months hard work.

Yep, they lucked out with those two elements. Do you know why Brawn struggled to improve in 2009? They introduced a two element front-wing, as they have done this year, and struggled to understand why it was adversely affecting the whole car. They're yet another team who chases downforce numbers rather than looking at the whole package. It had nothing to do with budget. That's why they're struggling this year. I have a greater respect for Button's judgement now.

It's OK JET, we get it. You don't want to believe that anything could possibly be wrong at Mercedes.

[aral]

Be careful, segendum, you'll get a nasty PM, as I did, for daring to question someone!