Red Bull RB6

[raymondu999]

Hey all. I think it's pretty much a secret in the public domain that the Merc pony gives up more juice than the Renault pony (I'm not saying it's 30 hp or whatever Horner says it is now Just saying that it is down on power). But then we also hear that the Renault is very drivable, and has better fuel consumption, and also has more torque. While we can clearly see the top-end power advantage of the Merc, have we really seen the advantages of its torque, fuel consumption and drivability? I don't think you can quite judge on the RB6 as it is just the absolute class of the field anyways.

[Phillyred]

Well, if in fact Mclaren is running a retarded ignition timing as has been observed/heard throughout this past weekend- fuel consumption and heat tolerance could play an interesting role for the remaining races. Red Bull only runs this ignition map in Q3 while Mclaren allegedly ran it the whole race. If fuel consumption is in fact that important then Mclaren may be taking some risks running the modified ignition map during the race. I believe the RB6 to still be the superior car even if they need to make some adjustments to their floor, nose, and wing to comply with the FIA. The 30hp disadvantage with the Renault may not be relevant this year as we have seen even Robert Kubica close the gap to Ferrari and Mclaren, but as KERS is reintroduced for 2011 I think the Mercedes power plant will really have the advantage esp. since they seemed to be the most successful team in 2009 to implement it.

[PlatinumZealot]

Well we don't fully know if RedBull is running it in the race or not. There is no characteristic sound.

[seinfeld]

even tho the renault is down on HP, I have seen that their car has a very nice torque curve, its drivable, I see them just driving out of corners, where as mercedes/mclaren are just fighting power over steer, I think that is a good characteristic to have, if they do get more HP, I wonder how that car will drive in traction zones, not like the renault, thats why it was so good around monaco, it never fried its rear tires, and got amazing drive up the hill

[Phail]

The Renault engine has decent horsepower, probably only the Mercedes & Ferrari engines has more power than it. The RB6 is also an easy handling car which has resulted in Vettel & Webber taking an almost clean sweep in qualifying this season.

[marcush.]

the power debate is ignoring ,that a more efficient engine will need less fuel to make the distance .
So 20 horses more power but you will also also having to carry 15kg of fuel so negating any advantage of the added power cause you carry more mass...not only accelerating also cornering and braking....whereas the propelling power is only useful on cornerexit till hitting the brakes...
also one has to ask if it was not better to look into losses (drivetrain)as a improvement there will free up power to be used for propulsion that is already there..

[mep]

Well we don't fully know if RedBull is running it in the race or not. There is no characteristic sound.

We don't even know if it exists at all.

[segedunum]

the power debate is ignoring ,that a more efficient engine will need less fuel to make the distance . So 20 horses more power but you will also also having to carry 15kg of fuel so negating any advantage of the added power cause you carry more mass

This is a completely moot point when teams can routinely control the consumption of their engines. Teams don't have to carry extra fuel at all. You'd rather have the horsepower when you need it since there is no downside.

[marcush.]

Jenson go to engne map 3 and hold station,we are short on fuel.... ERR we are in lap 20ß ..Hold station and save fuel or we will not make it till the finish..

Of course they can control their consumption ...driving slower...But then you got perhaps 30Hp less ....

[Owen.C93]

Well we don't fully know if RedBull is running it in the race or not. There is no characteristic sound.

We don't even know if it exists at all.

A team boss (Might of been Sam Michael) said it existed and they were talking to cosworth about the system.

[segedunum]

So? You save fuel when you're in front and have used your horsepower to get there and maintain it. It's not like Red Bull or Renault haven't had to save fuel themselves and since they're down by perhaps twenty or so horsepower anyway it's rather a silly comparison.

The Renault might have other characteristics to it that make it competitive but fuel consumption isn't one of them. If it was significantly more fuel efficient than other engines to the point where they didn't have to turn the power down then you might have a point, but you don't.

[marcush.]

it is a simple thing :you got twenty HP more and you will need fuel to produce it ..simple physics or would you dare say Renault is less capable than Ferrari or Mercedes in producing efficiency out of a mandatory package? that would mean they used the same amount of fuel to produce less power to propel the car but of course the 20 horsepower lacking would have to go into engine cooling and exhaust,gettting rid off would need to have more qairflow through the car ..ading drag.that would add up significantly to their topspeed disadvanage they do not have...but ok .

[raymondu999]

Has anyone noticed that in Daniel Ricciardo's run of Silverstone from a standing start in the BBC pre-race buildup, and also in Karun Chandhok's run of the Korean circuit, they were using some bastard lovechild of the RB5 and something with gills and also protrudingexhausts?

[djos]

Has anyone noticed that in Daniel Ricciardo's run of Silverstone from a standing start in the BBC pre-race buildup, and also in Karun Chandhok's run of the Korean circuit, they were using some bastard lovechild of the RB5 and something with gills and also protrudingexhausts?

iirc it's actually an RB3/4 with some more modern looking wings on it.

[adrianjordan]

The Renault engine has decent horsepower, probably only the Mercedes & Ferrari engines has more power than it. The RB6 is also an easy handling car which has resulted in Vettel & Webber taking an almost clean sweep in qualifying this season.

So that leaves only the Cosworth that's down on the Renault then?