Flexible wings controversy 2010

[kalinka]

If Red Bull wants to win at all costs despite this obvious evidence, let them. The championship will be a hollow victory, with a lot of people put off. Do you then think their business will not suffer? Fair play after all matters to most people and if they see RB as michiavellian in F1. then that reputation will stick everytime RB is mentioned in the press, or discussed in public.

I'd love to believe in that, but it's not going to work. Average people and fans who were not following F1 very closely are of very,very short memory.

[gridwalker]

I just can't explain what I am seeing.
What's happening here, the wing spans are bending more than they are supposed to, or is it the centre section being lower than it is supposed to?

The wing spans are bending, but i think they're bending within regulation.
The centre span looks weird and the end plate foot plate seems to be doing some bending itself.

Me too, it just looks odd. However, you can clearly see the orange marks on the road where a large bump is and the blocks have been rubbing on it, so it may not be as low as we think.

This shot was taken at Spa, if I am not mistaken :
I suspect that this photo was taken at the compression point of Eau Rouge, as it is incredibly common for cars to bottom out there (accounting for the plank marks on the track). The curvature of the dip would distort the visible height of the front wing, but not quite enough to account for what you see in that picture ...

If the wing is going to scrape the track anwhere, it is as you start the rise up to Kemmel!

[horse]

It's probably been noted before, but for me, there are two stages of flex here. The first, and likely normal, flex runs up to the end plate, but then the wing containing the channels beyond the end plate has an additional "kink" directing the channels towards the track. Now, if this kink is an aero induced phenomena brought on by the mechanics of the end plate, then other than hanging something off the channels themselves, how the hell do you test for it?

[gridwalker]

It could be easy to regulate, however the necessary changes couldn't be introduced until next season.

It has already been noted that the technology for measuring distance using lasers is relatively cheap and common : position 4 of these in the endplates (left and right, front and back) and then measure the wing's ride height through the telemetry.

You would need to take 2 different averages :

You will need to ensure that the mode wing height is above X (insert appropriate value here) to ensure that the most frequent wing height complies with the regulations whilst accounting for fluctuations when going over curbs.

You should also ensure that the mean wing height is above X (insert appropriate value here) to ensure that the wing does not flex unreasonably on the occasions that it flexes below the statutory mode wing height.

Combining laser distance measuring, real time telemetry and some fairly basic calculation scripts, the FIA could ensure that their rules are not bent

Whether the FIA can be bothered to implement such a complex test is an entirely different matter ...

[horse]

You will need to ensure that the mode wing height is above X (insert appropriate value here) to ensure that the most frequent wing height complies with the regulations whilst accounting for fluctuations when going over curbs.

You should also ensure that the mean wing height is above X (insert appropriate value here) to ensure that the wing does not flex unreasonably on the occasions that it flexes below the statutory mode wing height.

I don't think measuring the wings ride height is sufficient though because, as you mention, there are times when the wing will naturally be close to the ground. Your statistics could be potentially sidestepped by flexing the wing the other way in low load situations in order to distort the mode and mean.

I really think the measurement needs to be relative to the wing centre (so add a fifth sensor). You can then monitor the relation of the ride height of the tips of the wings to the centre and the difference must be within a certain tolerance along with a statistical test for the overall ride height of the wing. I don't see how there could be much ambiguity then.

[SiLo]

I think that the laser thing is a very good, simple and overall cheap idea that the FIA should implement. It could be used all over the place on the car too, instead of just having a board that rubs the floor and checking the wear. You could then have all the results easily plotted on graphs to see if people are running close to the wind.

[lyko81]

Looking that picture i can see a silver part of the column from which the wing is hanging (red circle). Looks to me like the silver part of shock absorbers of a suspension. Comparing this picture with others that shows the car stopped, there you can see no silver part.

[SiLo]

Looking that picture i can see a silver part of the column from which the wing is hanging (red circle). Looks to me like the silver part of shock absorbers of a suspension. Comparing this picture with others that shows the car stopped, there you can see no silver part.

Oh wow, never seen that before. That should really be investigated by someone...

[marcush.]

No,boys that was always Redbull feature they have a metal insert in their frontwing providing mounting points for the wingpillars.nothing new there.

[Richard]

Looking that picture i can see a silver part of the column from which the wing is hanging (red circle). Looks to me like the silver part of shock absorbers of a suspension. Comparing this picture with others that shows the car stopped, there you can see no silver part.

It would help if you'd posted a picture of the stationary car to show the difference.

Here's picture in the garage at Spa from the RB thread. The silver parts are there, I'd say your theory is incorrect.

viewtopic.php?f=12&t=7658&start=1725

[Halgovern]

Looking that picture i can see a silver part of the column from which the wing is hanging (red circle). Looks to me like the silver part of shock absorbers of a suspension. Comparing this picture with others that shows the car stopped, there you can see no silver part.

It would help if you'd posted a picture of the stationary car to show the difference.

Here's picture in the garage at Spa from the RB thread. The silver parts are there, I'd say your theory is incorrect.

viewtopic.php?f=12&t=7658&start=1725

yeah but that doesn't mean the metal section stays the same length. it could extend under load, and guess what, it would be very hard to spot the additional extension because the metal section is already visible when the car is still. Simple visual trick, typical newey i say

[lyko81]

Looking that picture i can see a silver part of the column from which the wing is hanging (red circle). Looks to me like the silver part of shock absorbers of a suspension. Comparing this picture with others that shows the car stopped, there you can see no silver part.

It would help if you'd posted a picture of the stationary car to show the difference.

Here's picture in the garage at Spa from the RB thread. The silver parts are there, I'd say your theory is incorrect.

viewtopic.php?f=12&t=7658&start=1725

Looking at the photos that you post, i think you are right

[SiLo]

Very much so, the silver part is still there but if you look carefully it isn't as extruded as the one on the car when it isn't moving.

[feynman]

So ... the waiting game. Till we get to a proper high-downforce track for a realistic comparison of before and after.

Interesting to read that the first attempt of the modified RedBull floor/bib failed an informal dry-run of the new test in Monza and had to be further modified. (McLaren and Red Bull borrowed the FIA test equipment to check their new floors for compliance before the action started).

If the floor can no longer lift, will the nose still drop?

[n_anirudh]

RBR's flexi wing was there since 2008.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ks9yBO1n ... re=related[/youtube]