Mercedes GP - Inauguration and 1st season

[xpensive]

I wouldn't mind beer with fat Norb, he can keep the weisswurst though, but imagine a good bar-brawl with Mike Gascoyne!

Btw, I heard that Horner has upped the ante a bit after today's race, now claiming to be at least 50 Hp down...on Ferrari!

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

I reckon Horner would say Frank Williams' Wheel chair has more horsepower if it meant he could get an engine mod.
The guy even gets his mechincs to stand behind the car pre race start. as if the teams dont know what it looks like!

Haug would love to see Benz badges on the Bull, an old ally wont have it though.

This ones for you christian you clown.

[andrew]

I think it was a wind-up for the benefit of Martin T. Whitmarsh.

[segedunum]

Ah yes, everything is baseless speculation when it gets uncomfortable! However, Red Bull wouldn't be wanting the Merc engine if they didn't think it was the best and that seems to be the only thing propping Merc GP's performances up at the moment.

Kubica being ahead of Schumacher on a track where the Renault cars haven't looked strong is yet another nail in an already nail filled coffin. Or should that be two coffins?

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Ah yes, everything is baseless speculation when it gets uncomfortable! However, Red Bull wouldn't be wanting the Merc engine if they didn't think it was the best and that seems to be the only thing propping Merc GP's performances up at the moment.

Kubica being ahead of Schumacher on a track where the Renault cars haven't looked strong is yet another nail in an already nail filled coffin. Or should that be two coffins?

How did you get to Mercedes outscoring Renault at a high speed track(Mercedes achilles heel) to "nails in a coffin"?
This in a microcosm explains everything you need to know about your view of Mercedes GP. You are critising them for beating Renault?
Just a week ago you were saying Renault will definatly beat Mercedes, now it appears you forget a Mercedes place 3 places above the Renault of Kubica, and try to justify an argument by saying he beat Schumachers Merc?

The lead just got bigger. fact.

What is your problem exactly? I'm left to ask this question, because whereas before I was suspicious, I'm now in no doubt that you have a vendetta against this team and its derailing constructive debate.


And where does Horner get 30hp from segedunmum? Out of thin air because after 2 equalisations the difference is marginal now. Marginal is not 30hp!
Do you hear Mercedes complaining about Chassis equalisation? Homologation has left them screwed this year. No, you dont... they grit their teeth and get on with mediocre performances.
Renault have made 2 engine mods, if they cant get it right after that then they really dont deserve to be equal do they now!

[quickneon]

Get rid of Schumi and bring in a good canadian kid, Bruno Spengler.

[andrew]

Yes that's right. Ditch the driver with the best experience available and sign a rookie. Way to develop a car and team(!) [-X

[siskue2005]

When I look at this picture I see what they are aiming for with their lower airbox. Not just less drag due to the lower airbox inlet but also a cleaner flow to the rearwing.

Furthermore when looking on those very flat wing endplates I feel confirmed that they don't have any kind of blown rear wing and possible never had (except when those bulbs the added on top of wing some races ago.
Some people here claimed they feed the wing trough those wing endplates.
I don't know how you came up with this idea but I don't believe it.

first of all that pic is from Monza were they took off their F-duct
and moreover its not people here who invented the f-duct coming through the endplates
its actually there , and was reported in formula1.com site
here is the link http://www.formula1.com/news/technical/ ... 0/758.html

Mercedes GP's F-Duct system, which was introduced in China, has received an upgrade in Turkey. It can now be activated by the driver's foot thanks to a bigger duct on the side of the chassis (blue arrow). This was previously much smaller and used to cool the drivers. The system of pipes used to direct the air to the rear wing is very complicated and they are all concealed by the engine cover, eventually reaching the wing's main profile through the side endplates.

and also at Spa MS was testing hand operated and knee operated f-ducts and he was constantly asking if that is working or not and he also had a strip of padding in he hand for that purpose.

[Mandrake]

Given the fact that MGP have taken off the F-Duct in Monza, where does this come from?

viewtopic.php?p=197817#p197817

I'm a bit confused... I could have sworn that Schumacher's engineer told him over the radio to use the F-duct in the beginning of FP3... isn't it passive in their cars?

[segedunum]

Mercedes GP are the ones employing a seven times champion on a massive salary with another experienced driver who is caning him. The fact is that they are barely where Renault and Williams are now. Like I said, the comparisons and the bar for 'success' just keeps getting lower.

As for Renault's lack of power, it's somehow baseless that they've performed worse at high power circuits when we have no evidence they are on a par at all? Scarbs described how Ferrari gained 15 HP alone. That should tell you everything about equalisation.

It's all straw clutching for a team that has the best engine in the field.

[747heavy]

if MGP took of the blown rear wing in Monza (which is possible), why would they keep the air intake on the RHS behind the front suspension?
If you compare Hamiltion vs. Button, you will see, that McL took off the small scoop airintake on Hamiltons car.
This makes perfect sense to me, so just wondering why MGP would keep the inlet?

[PlatinumZealot]

So how would their F-duct work?

Maybe they're stalling diffuser or beam wing.

I don't think there would be much gain stalling the diffuser. In fact, I don't know if it's even possible to "stall" a diffuser. Aerofoils can be stalled (like wing of a plane or wing of a race car), I doubt if diffusers can.

Even if possible, I don't think it would be worth much because I don't think the diffuser creates significant drag. Not any that could be reduced be "stalling" it anyway.

My understanding of aerodynamics is admittedly shaky. So I'll gladly eat my hat if proven wrong though.

It's correct. A properly designed diffuser promotes smooth pressure recovery of the air flowing through it. So one can deduce that properly sized diffuser reduces drag.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Does this explain Renault and Mercedes identical straightline speeds? Or the way Webber was able to close on Schumacher on the straights and overtake him?

And what has Ferrari got to do with Renault and Mercedes?

30 hp difference is pure fantasy.

And not even Scarbs can see the difference between engines without benching them. So, along with Horner, your assumption that this figure is 30hp, is baseless.
Tell me, did you also factor in that the Renault uses less fuel and is therefore a lighter car for most of the race?

And since when have Mercedes "sunk" below 4th. May I remind you that Ferrari, F1's most prestigious and succesful team, finished 4th last year having competed for 60 years.
So you painting this as a disaster is a joke. Dissapointing yes, disaster no. There is a difference but I imagine the subtleties of adjectives arent your strong point?

And Schumachers presence more than justifies his 7m salary through sponsorship.

[mep]

Well possible that it's not the people here that invented it so maybe it was the Mercedes PR department. At least it be the people here who figure out that it doesn't exist or is not working.

So ok you show me that air intake now tell me how does the air come to the rear wing?
The air enters the car on the little intake in the front of the car then it has to:

- travels through the whole car to the beam wing

- enters the beam wing trough a 90° angle,

- travels along the beam wing span

- go trough a 90° corner to enter the wings endplates

- travels up through the very flat wing endplates up to the rear wing (notice that such a rectangular and flat crosssection causes lots of drag.

- makes another 90° corner to enter the rear wing

- travels along the rear wing span

- makes a final 90° corner to exit the wing possible even though a nozzle shaped slot

So and now they want us to believe that this should be efficient at all?
Honestly I wonder if it even works. All those direction changes and the non optimal cross sections cause drag. You can't force the air to enter the duct.
When it’s easier for the air to go around the duct it will do so.
It's no wonder Schumacher can't notice any difference when applying the F-duct.
There simply is no difference.

I wonder what’s going on with them?
Look at the following picture of TorroRosso's F-duct.
Mercedes could mount a similar thing on top of their airbox.
In fact with the low airbox they have the best preconditions of all the cars so they could end up with the best f-duct in the field.

[marcush.]

hehehe..maybe they are blind???? i see it like mep ..it wo´t get much better than with the merc stile rollover structure if you need a good flow to feed the f-duct
methinks.