Mercedes GP - Inauguration and 1st season

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

And here is some interesting news.

http://www.motorsport.com/news/article.asp?ID=386578

However, Brawn told Auto Motor und Sport that the Brackley based team has been working this year to reinforce its staff in the area of car/tyre interaction.

"We have also had access to the experts at Daimler-Benz," he said, indicating that the team's situation is better now than when it was privately owned a year ago.

"Back then we had to rebuild our team while fighting for the world title. Those are problems we have not had this time," said Brawn.

I would like to emphasise the last paragraph. That settles that then!

[segedunum]

Well no, because it's more excuses and Ross covering his backside. He needs a good excuse for how far off they are this year. It's an obvious excuse to be sure.

[andrew]

Replace excuse with fact and your comment will be correct. Ross Brawn doesn't come accross as the sort of guy who spout total BS. Now Christian Horner on the other shovel.....

[segedunum]

You did use speculation, as always. I didn't say Renault was 30 HP down, just that they are clearly lacking at power circuits. You then tried to argue that Renault are not down on power at all, with pure conjecture, to attempt to say that Mercedes 'don't' have the best engine out there to make their performances look better.

Are we going to get anything other than 'I think you're wrong' wrapped up as weight of evidence?

[segedunum]

Fact? We've got the principal of a team giving excuses we don't have even circumstantial evidence for.

What's funny is that you seem to think this is an impartial source.

[andrew]

It's as impartial as your's.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Fact? We've got the principal of a team giving excuses we don't have even circumstantial evidence for.

What's funny is that you seem to think this is an impartial source.

Okay we have Ross Brawn in one corner, a multi talented head of a team that has won countless championships with Benetton Ferrari and Brawn.
And then we have a Mercedes/Brawn detractor segedunum, who says we should believe him over this Brawn "mug"?

On what grounds?


You yourself said that the events of 2009 should have no effect at all. Here Brawn is saying it had a negative effect. I dont think Brawn is covering anything, he has been frank...they messed up. He has said many times as have I, so where he is covering I really dont know.
They didnt have the cash to keep staff, of course its going to have a negative effect on your team, much to your chagrin, I think most people can see that.

Maybe you just want to post the antithesis of what I say to invoke debate?

At the end of the day Im a Mercedes fan. An unblinkered one at that, they are mediocre this year of course, but rubbish they are not.
For you to continuosly berate the Mercedes GP and Ross Brawn is not constructive to this forum. I see you laughing at a team trying to improve, without adding any value at all.

Why?

Not after a riposte are you eh?

[segedunum]

Given that Red Bull and Renault have clearly done less well at circuits that require more horsepower I think not, but continue to see things the way you want. Just don't continue it on this thread until you have something to back it all up with than facts from less than partial sources.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Given that Red Bull and Renault have clearly done less well at circuits that require more horsepower I think not, but continue to see things the way you want. Just don't continue it on this thread until you have something to back it all up with than facts from less than partial sources.

Renault powered cars performed marginally worse at Monza(Red Bull are the best through high and mid speed corners, of which there are little at Monza BTW), does this mean Ferrari have the best engine now? Haug best get on the old blower and ask Jean Todt for some "equalisation"....

Anything can be deduced in microcosm, thing is Renault arent more than 15hp behind Mercedes, and the REAL performance differentiator in 2010 is actually engine wear.
If your engine wears more, it loses more power. And there is a link between consuming more fuel and wear, and as the Renault consumes less than Mercedes, it is entirely plausible for the Renault to be on a par or even better than the F0108X Mercedes in second stage life.

[segedunum]

If you think Ross Brawn is an impartial source here.......well. It's amusing, naive and embarrassing how you view that. It doesn't need to be explained.

What I really loved was how he quickly said he'd recruited some Michelin guy in an attempt to say that what they'd fouled up this year is resolved. He then referred to that ludicrous mandatory weight distribution that has turned the team into a real joke.

The bum shuffling has now started in public. It was an amusing interview, but not in the way you think.

[segedunum]

Marginally worse? Red Bull are miles off from where they were and Renault are not where they were at places like Monaco and Hungary. A clear difference where horsepower is not as important.

You're in a logical bind now JET from which history tells us you won't recover.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Why are you so bothered about impartiality when Mercedes and Brawn are the story?


The motorsport.com website is impartial, as its not affiliated to Merceds or Brawn in any way. Now that's out the way, what reason do you have to question Brawn?
He came out to say the screwed up with development. Thats an honest assesment.

He is saying there were reasons for that. You say they are invalid.
Brawn has now given us a deeper insight into this, and still you say he is covering his position.
ON WHAT GROUNDS?

He won last year and was potless and had to let people go! for the umpteenth time this will have a negative effect on a team. Yet you maintian that it wont.

Why do Mclaren Red Bull and Ferrari bother to employ all those additional people then? Obviously those extra 200 staff are just tea ladies and cleaning staff right?
I honestly think you should give up the ghost, as your posts descended into farce.
Its clear you have an agenda, for the sake of the thread now be constructive?

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Marginally worse? Red Bull are miles off from where they were and Renault are not where they were at places like Monaco and Hungary. A clear difference where horsepower is not as important.

You're in a logical bind now JET from which history tells us you won't recover.

I forgot, who was on pole? A ferrari engined car.
Who outqualified Hamilton? Webber in a renault engined Red Bull.
And Renault have not consistently outperformed Mercedes, as the table and qualifying will testify, so why should that change for Monza?

Logically speaking, it appears the bind is in your head.

[xpensive]

I don't think you need to me a Mercedes-, Brawn- or Schumacher-hater to react to the motorsport.com piece above;

Schumacher is hoping to challenge for the 2011 title with a more competitive Mercedes, but Brawn warned: "It depends on how good the Pirelli tyre is in terms of how he (Michael) can respond in the steering movements."

So there we are, long before the 2011 season has even started, Brawn is already blaming Pirelli, the same tyre that every other team will use by the way, on Schumachers potential, or perhaps likely, failure next year?

An utterly outrageous comment if you ask me, perhaps aimed at the Stuttgart-suits, the old March-machinist is obiously in trouble anyway you look at it.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

xpensive,

Why is it outrageous? Because smaller front tyres have less grip, meaning shumacher cant have a pointy front end. That is quite straightforward.