Mercedes GP - Inauguration and 1st season

[xpensive]

I remember Siemens very, very clearly as well.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

I'll quote Adrian Newey's views on what was required for this season:

"The ban on refuelling is primarily a packaging challenge as we have to integrate a fuel tank which is almost double the size of the existing one, whilst trying to maintain the basic design of the existing car....In a sense yes, stable regulations mean that the designs along the pit lane converge and become evolutions of each other - I do like the challenge of major regulation changes as it offers opportunity for fresh thinking"

His views outright contradict Ross Brawn's and are more valid by virtue of the fact that the RB6 is an evolution of the RB5 and is continuing to win.

So you quote Newey in 2009 for 2010. And then you criticize my quote on brawn in 2010 for 2011? You dont see the flaw?

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

And segedunum.

If the Quote is "crap"(very elegant), why is quoted in so many respected F1 sites? Maybe Brawn had insight into this? Think of that?

[aral]

It is interesting to see that Jordan is now saying that Schumi AND Brawn are disillusioned with Merc, and are likely to be on the way out. So I guess he still has a 50/50 chance of being right!

[NewtonMeter]

It is interesting to see that Jordan is now saying that Schumi AND Brawn are disillusioned with Merc, and are likely to be on the way out. So I guess he still has a 50/50 chance of being right!

Actually, I think its 25%. But I'm no statistician by any means.

[xpensive]

It is interesting to see that Jordan is now saying that Schumi AND Brawn are disillusioned with Merc, and are likely to be on the way out. So I guess he still has a 50/50 chance of being right!

Here's an idea for you JET, you as well marcush, what if MS and Ross-da-messiah buys the team from Daimler?

Schumacher-Nissan, how about that?

[aral]

It is interesting to see that Jordan is now saying that Schumi AND Brawn are disillusioned with Merc, and are likely to be on the way out. So I guess he still has a 50/50 chance of being right!

Here's an idea for you JET, you as well marcush, what if MS and Ross-da-messiah buys the team from Daimler?

Schumacher-Nissan, how about that?

You will be in trouble now!

[marcush.]

for 1 € + everything paid for the next year ...that would be the coup of the millenium...
I´d guess the´d need Ferari engines then?

I like that idea.

[xpensive]

Ferrari customer engines? Hell no, they've both worked there, remember?

[segedunum]

So you quote Newey in 2009 for 2010. And then you criticize my quote on brawn in 2010 for 2011? You dont see the flaw?

Errrr, no.......... First of all, Newey was not talking about 2009 for 2010. He was talking at the start of 2010 as to what had been done and what was required. The RB6 did not have a twelve month plus gestation period and it is a straightforward evolution of a winning car from last season.

Brawn is also not talking about 2010 for 2011 - it's an excuse as to why they haven't done as well this season, that is that they didn't have long enough to develop this car. Read it again, and read it in context:

Cars are born 12 months before they’re raced and when this car was born we had our focus on lots of things – survival of the company, we were trying to win the championship and we didn’t focus enough on this car.

But that’s the car we have now, that’s not the balance that we are going to strike for next year.

Do you do this on purpose JET?

He is basically saying a completely new car developed over twelve months was needed for this season, and they couldn't do it because of other things that were happening. Newey has said he was wrong, and is right because his evolved car is winning.

It's not a good sign when someone has to explain to you the meaning of quotes that you yourself have quoted.

[marcush.]

exp.. don´t you see they have full pockets ..Ferrari will not have to think twice...
and the sting in Mercedes heart will be worth it even if that horsejump might hurt a bit....

[segedunum]

If the Quote is "crap"(very elegant), why is quoted in so many respected F1 sites? Maybe Brawn had insight into this? Think of that?

I don't understand you JET. What you're quoting is confirming nothing, and all it's doing is trying to give people warm fuzzies about the future of the team.

The reason why they are a throwaway set of quotes is because both Brawn and Haug have vested interests. What else do you think they're going to say? We also heard exactly the same soundbites from Honda, Toyota and BMW over the years and they were all quoted by 'respected F1 sites' - a bizarre thing to say that does not make your argument any stronger.

Can you not see how meaningless they are? If not then I think you should perhaps stop trying to debate here.

[segedunum]

Here's an idea for you JET, you as well marcush, what if MS and Ross-da-messiah buys the team from Daimler?

They could sell the team to MS and Brawn and just have an engine supply and drivetrain deal - like they should have done to start off with. That's going to be a rather expensive lesson. Volkswagen themselves have a very clear idea about what is needed for them to get involved, and it will be engine supply with no team ownership and the engine format will need to be something that they feel will benefit their engine expertise.

It's impossible to see what Mercedes gets out of their team. Marketing? Well yer, but that rises and falls with the fortunes of the team. Research and development? Doubt it. At least with McLaren they are built as a Formula 1 team first and their expertise is now flowing to their car manufacturing business.

The same thing happened with Honda, Toyota and BMW. They all jumped up and down about having control of their own team, and when they got it it didn't match up with the interests of the wider company and they didn't know what to do with it.

[segedunum]

I remember Siemens very, very clearly as well.

So do I. They built a large electronics factory not from from where I am with tons of government money - and then sodded off!

I'm wiling to bet that a lot of that money 'disappeared' and never appeared on any official financial company statements.

[xpensive]

exp.. don´t you see they have full pockets ..Ferrari will not have to think twice...
and the sting in Mercedes heart will be worth it even if that horsejump might hurt a bit....

You misunderstand me marcush, MS and RB know all too well what crap is passed on to Ferrari's engine customers.