Blue Flag Rule Discussion

[mycadcae]

This proposal can be accepted by the FIA?. This proposal may get a new team to accelerate more smoothly ..

[mx_tifoso]

Would it be too much trouble to ask for links?

Background info on the topic is good to have in order to properly continue the discussion, IMO.

[MattyT]

In an interview with Bloomberg, the Malaysian entrepreneur said Kovalainen, the new team's Finnish driver, proposes that "lapped cars should not be blue flagged, which may allow time for trailing cars to catch up to the leaders".

Did a quick google search and found that from here http://www.wheels24.co.za/FormulaOne/He ... n-20100318

The article was dated 2010-03-18, and there doesn't seem to be anything since then, so I'd say it's safe to assume this idea never got any traction.

[nipo]

Agree... I never got that luxury lapping cars in racing games anyway!!!

Seriously I think it is possible to remove blue flags. Let everyone race against everyone else on track! It removes confusion and any possibility of "unfair" situations where backmarkers somehow influenced a fight at the front.

[dave kumar]

Does anybody know when blue flags were introduced?

Must have been sometime in the 80s I think. Was it just a formalisation of a gentleman's agreement to allow cars to lap or was it a rule change to stop cars being lapped defending their position?

[RH1300S]

AFIK Blue flags have been around for a long, long time.

What has been changed recently is how the drivers are supposed to react to the flags and the sanctions for not doing so.

[nipo]

@RH1300S
You are quite correct with that. However it has never been possible to treat backmarkers as if they weren't there - they are objects on the track and however alert they are with blue flags they can always cause trouble. And now cars are getting more and more sensitive and allowance is getting smaller it is maybe the time to treat those objects as competing cars rather than to pretend they weren't there.

Then again we do have races like Monaco where blue flags might be a necessity.

[wesley123]

what is that for a proposal? so they can simply hold up all the other teams and then say 'wow look how long we kept the red bull behind us' while they werent even racing for a position. It is simply bullshit and dangerous to remove the blue flag.

[pgj]

Doesn't the steering wheel display show a blue light now anyway?

Blue flags should remain anyway. They are also an indication to spectators that a driver has been given a 'get out of the way' signal.

[Pandamasque]

Flags aren't to blame if some backmarkers can't let the faster cars safely.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sUsAPGgGJZA[/youtube]

Look at that idiotic Virgin driver whoever he was, when he pulled off right on the apex after being about 200-300m ahead of the lapping cars on the straight and caused an incident when Vettel and Hamilton nearly came together at T1. As Lewis said it really was dangerous, as well as absolutely unnecessary. Had the Virgin car driven at its normal pace those two wouldn't catch him up until T3 at least. By that time they'd sort their fight for position and lap him one by one.

On the other hand those F1 drivers who constantly whine about slower cars holding them up should watch a round of the Le Mans Series. They'd either die of heart attack or actually learn something.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m6nZ0cBBMJ8[/youtube]

[dave kumar]

...Had the Virgin car driven at its normal pace those two wouldn't catch him up until T3 at least. By that time they'd sort their fight for position and lap him one by one.

Given the larger speed differentials this year, would it be safer if the backmarkers maintained their pace and kept to their line? A rapidly approaching car would be better able to predict where that car is going to be (and how far ahead) and make an overtaking move at a time of their choosing.

The downside of that is of course lapping cars of more comparable speed. Especially with the current crop of cars. In these cases, the driver would have to make a big move under braking to get alongside. The rules could then be clarified to say that although the backmarkers are not required to slow down or give up the racing line they are not allowed to block and once the a wheel is put alongside they must concede the apex.

I do remember in the 80s that coming up against backmarkers was a much bigger deal and that certain drivers were renouned for dispatching backmarkers more decisevely than others. When did that morph in to the current strict observance of the blue flags?

[ESPImperium]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/87186

With Lotus Racing and now Virgin backing the relaxation or Blue Flags to be abolished now, i think there is a case for the Blue Flag rule to have some revisions to it.

Personally, what id like to see is blue flags can only be wavied on the start fihish straight and the slower car move over for the faster one by the end of the lap, not the current 4/5 corner rule as is at present. This allows the slower driver to move over in an area that is acceptable to him, altho at detrement to the faster one. And to avoid team orders, drivers should move over in the same area each time they get lapped.

I may not make sence, but the blue flag rule needs revising, slightly. Lets see some driver skill from the faster guys as well.

[RH1300S]

I'd like to buy their argument, but I don't. Looking at it cynically, they will get more TV coverage if the race leaders end up jammed behind their cars.

For me the blue flag rules works, it keeps the momentum in the battle at the front. I wouldn't like to see a race decided by a leading car tripping over a backmarker.

I do have some sympathy with their concerns about how much time they loose lap after lap - it makes their races look pretty shabby.

You can't please everyone and I would say it is right that the lead cars can get on with their afternoon.

[Just_a_fan]

I think the idea of a set overtaking place is not unreasonable e.g. the first corner. At least then the following driver knows for sure that he won't get chopped by a back marker as he goes for the pass.

I'm a little cynical about backmarker deciding race outcomes by intentionally holding up Driver B having intentionally let Driver A pass.

Having one blue flag overtaking location means that all drivers get to pass but the really good guys / fastest cars might gain an advantage by being able to pass earlier in the lap.

The current "jump out of the way now!" rule is too far the other way for my taste.

[ESPImperium]

Its funny that it only arose this year with no refueling as looking at my data from 2006 there was only a handful of cars lapped each race;

In 2006 it was the Midland, Super Aguri and Toro Rossos that got lapped, but were within a couple of seconds a lap of the P1 guys.
In 2007 it was the Spyker that was the main trouble, but was still in the couple of seconds of P1 guy.
In 2008 it was the Force India (Same car as 2007 essencially) but was within 1.5 seconds a lap of P1.
Last year it was the closest ever, generally within 0.9-1.2 a lap of P1 with the slowest car being Luca Badoer.

I think the TV exposure idea is in the air with the smaller teams, but the thing is that i can see is the fact the 3 new teams have been so slow this year and gthe fact that refueling created cars that were much closer in ultimate performance than cars this year. I can see this being diffrent for 2011, but i still see some instances where drivers that drove the drive of their life look as if they have had a shabby race.