Brazilian GP 2010 - Interlagos

[alvinkhorfire]

Vettel is young, redbull winning the WDC and WCC is bigger and more important than his feelings, he can wait for next year.

+1 =D>

There is no other way than for Red Bull to fully support Webber to win WDC. Or else, they will face the very same regret just like last year: the fastest car at the end of the year, but could not win WDC and WCC.

Plus, the future of Red Bull is being shaped around Vettel. So, let Webber have his moment of glory first.

[Newms]

I have no idea where you guys get your engine data from lol...

As Martin Brundle said, Alonso's engine he will be using in the last two races has only done one race so far... But that one race was Monza!

The engine he used in Korea had also done Spa and Japan

Like others have stated, Brazil should suit RBR, but Ferrari has always gone well here, expect Massa to be right up there, he has a big point to prove!

[raymondu999]

IF Alonso clinches the title at Interlagos, and the reds are 1-2 in Abu Dhabi, will Alonso have his schumacher moment and repay Massa for Hockenheim?

[zeph]

If his title is in the bag I am sure he will feel magnanimous.

What I'm worried about is Massa doing well in Brazil. Reportedly, he has been criticized in Brazil for yielding in Germany. Supposing he does really well and then has to cede his position for Alonso's championship?

He will be quartered, tarred, feathered and railroaded out of the country, and I bet he knows this.

[feni_remmen]

I think probably RedBull will wait until they see where Nando is in Brazil before deciding what to do with their placings. If FA is any lower than 3rd (assuming MW and SV are 1st and 2nd), they will let it ride and hope for the best. If FA is 3rd, then they will be forced to allow Mark to win. If they don't do this, then they are taking a giant risk.

I'd like to think that RedBull will not impose any team orders, but it will take an enormous sell job to stop history from making them look silly (assuming they lose)!

[djos]

If Red Bull Really want the WDC and the WCC then they need to run the most aggressive risk mitigation strategy possible and that is Seb Supporting Mark to win the last 2 GP's - anything less is just plain naive and foolish!

[ecapox]

So if Redbull use team orders if alonso is 3rd or lower, then it is OK for them to break the rules? Because if i remember correctly, the "No team orders" rule still exists and is still fully enforceable by a $100,000 penalty.

Either way, i see a Ferrari 1-2 in Brazil, so im not too worried.

[djos]

Ferrari broke them openly, RB would hopefully learn from Ferrari's mistake and tell the drivers before the Race what do do in what situations and prolly use more subtle codes to remind them during the race.

Btw, Nando will be on the podium but a 1-2 seems unlikely unless it's a Red Bull 1-2!

[univex]

Interesting comment on the battle in Red Bull qualifying.

As much as I think Webber has done a superb job this year, love what the bloke stands for and would dearly love to see him win this year's championship, Vettel is a good guy too and you can't be other than impressed by his current form under pressure.

For the second successive race there was just seven hundredths of a second between the pair in Korean qualifying, which equates to around four metres, or less than the length of a Red Bull RB6 if you prefer.

Every time that happens I feel frustrated on Webber's behalf because, probably, he's done the better job. Why? Because when you're 6ft2ins and at least 10 kilos heavier than the little guy in the other car no matter how drawn your face looks, you can't play with the ballast and optimise set-up as much as he can. It's fractions, but that's all we're talking about.

You can't saw your legs off and the problem is never going to go away but to consistently get that close to someone as quick as Vettel and often beat him, is a damned good effort. Compounding the problem, every time it happens you get lumbered with the dirty side of the grid and are often disadvantaged against the guy starting behind you, which is a rude slap in the face when these cars are as hard to pass as they are.

[forty-two]

So if Redbull use team orders if alonso is 3rd or lower, then it is OK for them to break the rules? Because if i remember correctly, the "No team orders" rule still exists and is still fully enforceable by a $100,000 penalty.

Either way, i see a Ferrari 1-2 in Brazil, so im not too worried.

+1
The rule is still in place, and arguably Ferrari "got off" with a 100k fine on THAT occasion, but that is not to say that under different circumstances another competitor would get the same treatment. For example, it might be that Ferrari were able to prove that indeed Fernando WAS faster than Felipe on that occasion?

Any team which employs overt team orders is still sailing pretty close to the wind in my opinion.

[imightbewrong]

Ferrari broke them openly, RB would hopefully learn from Ferrari's mistake and tell the drivers before the Race what do do in what situations and prolly use more subtle codes to remind them during the race.

Btw, Nando will be on the podium but a 1-2 seems unlikely unless it's a Red Bull 1-2!

So, to summarize: You think it is OK to "cheat" as long as you don't get caught.
Correct?

[AndySeiji]

Suppose Ferrari had not used team orders in Germany and Massa managed to lead Alonso home. Alonso would now still lead with 224 points instead of 231 and Massa would still be even worse than Button, sitting at 150 points instead of 143.

Would it now be ok for Ferrari to use team orders?

Is it ok now to forget all about fairness since things are getting serious?

That's hard to say. Psychological effects take a lot in count. Massa was let down by the team in Germany, if not, he might have started a good fight back.

+1
The rule is still in place, and arguably Ferrari "got off" with a 100k fine on THAT occasion, but that is not to say that under different circumstances another competitor would get the same treatment. For example, it might be that Ferrari were able to prove that indeed Fernando WAS faster than Felipe on that occasion?

Any team which employs overt team orders is still sailing pretty close to the wind in my opinion.

Let's not forget that FIA registered that Fernando whiner turned his rev's up while Felipe kept it down. That's a pretty easy way to get faster.

[ecapox]

+1
The rule is still in place, and arguably Ferrari "got off" with a 100k fine on THAT occasion, but that is not to say that under different circumstances another competitor would get the same treatment. For example, it might be that Ferrari were able to prove that indeed Fernando WAS faster than Felipe on that occasion?

Any team which employs overt team orders is still sailing pretty close to the wind in my opinion.

Well, if it happens, im digging through that old thread and calling out all the people that were up in arms. See, they were more Ferrari haters than actually caring about the rules. So if Redbull does it, in whatever fashion they want, there will be two types of deniers:

1. Those that believe the rule is non enforceable now. "Ferrari went to the FIA and they didnt get a further penalty so that basically means that the rule isnt enforceable."

2. Those that believe there wasnt any team order because it is the driver they want to win the WDC. "What team orders? Vettel said his engine was failing. That wasnt a team order."

I'd expect a conversation before FP1 to Vettel to let him know that he needs to talk about imbalance, tire issues, brake issues, etc to the media before qualifying so that when he qualifies slower than Webber, it will all be ok.

[djos]

Ferrari broke them openly, RB would hopefully learn from Ferrari's mistake and tell the drivers before the Race what do do in what situations and prolly use more subtle codes to remind them during the race.

Btw, Nando will be on the podium but a 1-2 seems unlikely unless it's a Red Bull 1-2!

So, to summarize: You think it is OK to "cheat" as long as you don't get caught.
Correct?

F1 has always had team orders, most of the time they are more subtly implemented and we dont know about them - it's all part of the sport.

[raymondu999]

Let's get back onto the race before this explodes into another team orders debacle