Divergent Governance: A Solution to the Overtaking Problem

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Richard James
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Divergent Governance: A Solution to the Overtaking Problem

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Hello everybody,

My name is Richard James, I am a professional aerospace engineer and I have been a motorsport fan since childhood. Like almost all motorsport enthusiasts I have become disheartened by the mechanical sameness of most series and the lack of action and overtaking, especially in Formula 1. So I decided to put my aerospace root cause analysis skills to use and have a go at trying to solve the problems. The results of my efforts are here http://www.divergentgovernance.co.uk and I would like you to please let me know what you think.

As a heads up to what this idea has achieved so far; it is being debated by Indycar as a possible method to ensure mechanical diversity within the open aero rules for their 2012 car. I am also working very closely with an ex FIA technical consultant who has suggested it is vital to gain as much publicity for my idea as possible, hence the website and this post. The concept will be featured shortly in Racecar Engineering Magazine and it is to be validated by Cambridge University. So, in summary, it is slowly gathering momentum but it requires far more critical mass. This is a powerful voice for the fans to shout loud and clear about what they want to see. This is the reason I am asking you read it, get enthused, and to go forth and spread the word.

Really hope you like it,

Rich

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fausto cedros
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Re: Divergent Governance: A Solution to the Overtaking Probl

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Hello richard and welcome from a fellow aerospace engineer.
I surely will as i have a bit of time. Good luck, by the way.
"Adding power makes you faster on the straights. Subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere" Anthony Bruce Colin Chapman

Richard James
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Re: Divergent Governance: A Solution to the Overtaking Probl

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Hi fausto cedros

Have you had a read yet??

Rich

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JohnsonsEvilTwin
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Re: Divergent Governance: A Solution to the Overtaking Probl

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Hi Richard and welcome to F1Technical.
I had a look, but dont have the time to read all of it just yet. I will Send you a message later.
More could have been done.
David Purley

feynman
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Re: Divergent Governance: A Solution to the Overtaking Probl

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I jumped straight to the cost-saving section for a quick flavour, and it was so utterly wrong in its thinking that it instantly put me off reading any more.

Which is a shame, because a day or so later I reconsidered and had a quick scan of the later sections and they seemed much more interesting.

So my initial, modest suggestion is to entirely remove the cost-saving angle, it is a weak secondary argument, represents a misunderstanding of the fundamental theory of F1 spending, and represents an easy attack vector to allow people to easily diminish and disregard the entire proposition.

The thrust should remain stubbornly focussed on divegergence and diversity, budgets are not a concern.

Caito
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Re: Divergent Governance: A Solution to the Overtaking Probl

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I suggest proposing your basic idea in a simpler way, rather than a 60 page pdf. Is a reality that people are naturally lazy. You could put a youtube video or maybe a better webpage to introduce your idea and generate the neccesary interest to read the pdf.


Hope it helps.


PS I don't have time to read it yet, and I believe many people have the same problem.
Come back 747, we miss you!!

DaveW
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Re: Divergent Governance: A Solution to the Overtaking Probl

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An interesting read, Richard, at first scan. I am impressed by the scope, the detail, & am wholly supportive of the principle(s) presented in your document.

If I may condense things grossly, I think you are seeking a cost function with many minima of equal height. I suspect that objective might be achievable for an instant in time, but weights would have to be massaged constantly for the principle to remain viable. That would present something of a challenge, I think.

But perhaps the biggest problem with the proposal for any professional race series would be the Fear Factor. An investment in a solution that turns out to be uncompetitive would be a financial disaster that few teams could survive. Convergent governance, as you call it, is a low risk strategy for sponsors, accountants & team managers.

alelanza
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So what's the premise? i'm not keen on downloading a pdf from an unknown source. I like F1 and believe we're living one of its golden eras, so i'm not naturally moved towards reading this. The first thing that comes to mind is one of those boring series where competitiveness is penalized with weight, so like the prev poster stated, a synopsis would be good, just to get you started. You know, if it ain't broken....
Alejandro L.

Richard James
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Re: Divergent Governance: A Solution to the Overtaking Probl

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Hi,

Thanks for your posts so far, although I think there are one or two misconceptions that need to be addressed.

Feynman; Not sure what you found wrong with the cost section, was it the 'problem' or 'solution' that you jumped too? There are only two ways to reduce cost in motorsport; the first is to negate the value of winning (make the sport smaller and generate less money as a whole) or nullify the benefits of development (which parametric governance does). I think the problem may lie in jumping to a section without reading through, the website clearly states that the document must be read from front to back (carefully) or a lack of comprehension will result.

Caito; There is already a website (hopefully this is where you picked up the doc.) I have a 2 page summary that I use where appropriate. The purpose of the forum posts is to give people the whole picture in order to stimulate understanding and debate, there would be no point in debating a summary (most of the debate would be regarding information contained in the full document).

DaveW; Yes, there may be a period of refinement of the relationships, but simulation and modelling is so good now that it would not be for long. The basic concept is fairly robust (please revisit the website and take a look at the news item concerning Cambridge Uni). Yes, fear is a big barrier, the simulation mentioned above would need to be performed extensively to give confidence.

Alelanze; Don't worry, it is not a virus or a success ballast formula.

Thanks for you imput so far, hope there is much more to come.

Rich

lolzi
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I haven't read all of it yet, but even just the first ~10 pages seem crowded with opinions and general "bullshit":

Along with narrow track and narrow tyres, this has turned what was once the pinnacle
class of racing car into a strange and incredulous looking entity that bears no relation
to its magnificent forebears. It is no longer the sleek beauty that lead the world in
technology and speed and is an unworthy standard bearer of the formula. A bizarre
hammer-headed beast, who’s emancipated hind quarters have withered away like a
diseased animal in the grip of some terrible affliction. Anybody with a modicum of
mechanical aptitude can see that the rule makers are twisting the cars out of shape as
easily as a half-baked vet can identify a sick animal. If a good vet took a look at a
contemporary formula 1 car I think it would definitely get shot.


Looking at that I see why it's 60 pages. Maybe you should remove all that kind of stuff and just get to the point.

DaveW
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Re: Divergent Governance: A Solution to the Overtaking Probl

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Richard James wrote:DaveW; Yes, there may be a period of refinement of the relationships, but simulation and modelling is so good now that it would not be for long.
Forgive me, Richard, but I don't think you quite appreciate the enormity of the task you have proposed. It is true that simulation & modelling have improved recently, but I am sure that the engineers responsible will admit that they are still only scratching the surface of the task. Accurate lap times are certainly possible but only, I think, by "massaging" friction coefficients.

An example, if I may. A (very) few years ago I rig tested an existing GT (hence mechanical) vehicle at the end of a race season (i.e. it was reasonably well-developed, you might think). We assessed the vehicle as was, & then replaced the dampers with alternatives. The overall damping of the replacements was similar, but the style of damping was different. We then supported a track test. Changing the dampers was worth 0.6 seconds a lap, but the change in damping style allowed other set-up changes that resulted in a further 1 second reduction in lap time. So, with a fixed vehicle, driver, track & track conditions, changing dampers on an already developed race car yielded a 1.6 second improvement in lap time. I am reasonably certain that would not have been predicted (in advance) by a simulation.

I could give similar examples where tyres were the variables.

My point is that technology is not "fixed". As soon as a set of rules has been defined, then capable engineers will find a way of defeating them. It has been that way for the last 30 years, at least, & I'm sure it will continue to be so.

feynman
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Re: Divergent Governance: A Solution to the Overtaking Probl

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Richard James wrote:Hi,
Feynman; Not sure what you found wrong with the cost section, was it the 'problem' or 'solution' that you jumped too? There are only two ways to reduce cost in motorsport; the first is to negate the value of winning (make the sport smaller and generate less money as a whole) or nullify the benefits of development (which parametric governance does). I think the problem may lie in jumping to a section without reading through, the website clearly states that the document must be read from front to back (carefully) or a lack of comprehension will result.
Without wishing to distract the thread, as briefly as I can:

The basic vibe was, for an example: Current control of engine output by specifying engine geometry leads to a money race. Solution: specify engine output parameters instead.

What? My heart sank.

Surely a complete and fundamental misunderstanding of the nature of competition and of F1 in particular.
Specify what paramters? OK limt measured power output on the dyno. All that same engine money diverts to shaving grams and making the same max power in a lighter block. OK now we must specify engine weight parameters. The money goes to producing that same max power but with better low-end torque, OK restict torque. So all the money now gets burned on producing the most drivable motor, the max parameter is limited by rule, so let's spend our money extending that power-band widthways, so now we have to parameterize and restrict power curves. Those very same millions will end-up being spent on producing that same power, in the same envelope, but with less fuel than your rivals.
While that may appeal to eco-FIA, it has done nothing to solve your money-race problem. The big fish still continue to furiously outspend the little ones.

And although you are loathe to admit it in your proposal, in reality you have unavoidably now built a spec engine, you had no choice, but took an incredibly long way round to get to it. A revolving door of ever-increasing parametric rulebook appendices. And all the while, the same monies being spent. The money will always squirt round the edges of whatever choice paramters you decide to specify ... it is the fundamental theory of F1.

To extremes. You could specify, parametrize and standardize every single aspect of every single component of an F1 car, save for, as a famous example, the wheel nuts ... guess what, Ferrari, McLaren and Red Bull would immediately spend all their massive resource on wheelnut development, lighter, stronger, faster ... no expense spared in the search for any slight differentiating competitive advantage. Fancy new wheelnut-alloy development, all those eye-wateringly expensive windtunnel hours now spent on tuning airflow round the nut, the nut sprouting winglets and exotic quick release mechanisms, either way the bills still come in, and the money still goes out.

F1 exists to maximise every available parameter available to a team, and they will spend, never any less, and exactly as much money and resource as they are able to gather to pursue that maximum ... if marketing can raise 200million, 200million will be spent, and that is exactly how it should be.

That's why it always frustrates and drives old-fashioned 20th-century authoritarian types like Mosley mad, and exactly why we should delight in it, it plain refuses to be controlled ... it is beautiful, it is cosmic, the relentless evolutionary principle of competition, survival, innovation and invention, writ large in carbon fibre and titanium.

"To add speed, add lightness", and that probably should apply to divergent governenance.
It is ultimately freedom, not regulation, that drives diversity. Freedom is good, not bad, it's just a bit hectic, rough and scary sometimes. But that shouldn't distract you.
Any proposition seeking to increase diversity should relish and embrace the deranged development process and its gloriously reckless outputs, noisy kinetic sculptures, exploring the laws of physics and material-science, and powered by relentlessly burning hundreds and hundreds of millions of bits of paper.

So, as I said, in my opinion, Divergent Governance should not concern itself with F1 budgets, it is in reality of no concern to it; the competition, the market, the economy, the tv ratings will automatically look after the quantity of spend, and any regulatory framework of any flavour, even a bruteforce budgetcap, will do little to alter that (teams would soon employ expensively fancy accountants instead of expensive aerodynamicists)...
To maximise its efficiency, to maintain its focus, any new regulatory proposal should take care to concentrate its energy and focus solely on providing a creative framework that encourages diverse solutions to evolve and compete. Ignore the money.

Richard James
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Re: Divergent Governance: A Solution to the Overtaking Probl

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DaveW wrote:
Richard James wrote:DaveW; Yes, there may be a period of refinement of the relationships, but simulation and modelling is so good now that it would not be for long.
Forgive me, Richard, but I don't think you quite appreciate the enormity of the task you have proposed. It is true that simulation & modelling have improved recently, but I am sure that the engineers responsible will admit that they are still only scratching the surface of the task. Accurate lap times are certainly possible but only, I think, by "massaging" friction coefficients.

An example, if I may. A (very) few years ago I rig tested an existing GT (hence mechanical) vehicle at the end of a race season (i.e. it was reasonably well-developed, you might think). We assessed the vehicle as was, & then replaced the dampers with alternatives. The overall damping of the replacements was similar, but the style of damping was different. We then supported a track test. Changing the dampers was worth 0.6 seconds a lap, but the change in damping style allowed other set-up changes that resulted in a further 1 second reduction in lap time. So, with a fixed vehicle, driver, track & track conditions, changing dampers on an already developed race car yielded a 1.6 second improvement in lap time. I am reasonably certain that would not have been predicted (in advance) by a simulation.

I could give similar examples where tyres were the variables.

My point is that technology is not "fixed". As soon as a set of rules has been defined, then capable engineers will find a way of defeating them. It has been that way for the last 30 years, at least, & I'm sure it will continue to be so.
Hi DaveW,

Thanks for your post, I take it you are involved in the racing industry. I respect your depth of knowledge of your specialist subject but I hope the following helps me explain what I am trying to achieve.

If I may continue with the example you have given. The primary function of the suspension system is to utilise as much of the grip available from the tyre for as much of the race as possible. For an absolute parametric system, the mechanical grip afforded by the tyre will be controlled by the equation of the relationship. The equation will also assume that the efforts of the teams will result in an engagement of that grip at least as effectively as the current state of the art and maybe more. This is how direct parametric control works, it gives a possible maximum grip and how well a team actually utilises that grip available is up to them. This is a subtle point of Divergent Governance, I am not trying to produce a ‘fair’ system where everybody can do well. I am just trying to remove the single point in physics nature (of an absolute geometric framework) with a flat environment or design plain. How well a team performs is entirely up to how well they perform every element of their job (just as today) and nothing more. The GT car you mentioned would be as far off the pace in a Convergent, as well as Divergent, series whose other teams had access to the facility you described. Two points of difficulty arise from my statement above. Firstly measuring and regulating grip directly would be difficult, and that is why the Formula 1 Incorporation Strategy substitutes trying to control grip directly with the proposal to control via the number of sets of tyres available, either at an event or throughout a season. This is a method of control employed today (so is easy to implement) and as there is an inverse relationship between grip and longevity this method would achieve the desired goal. As technology improved both life and grip, the option to revisit the relationship, for subsequent seasons, may or may not be exercised. The other difficulty is what tolerance would be required on the actual flatness of the design plain for convergence of design not to result. This is the focus of the work to be performed at Cambridge University and initial assessment suggests that whatever the current status of design simulation and modelling is, would be sufficient. (Please see the news item on the website)

These are the typical activities of design engineers around the world in all, high tech, disciplines; it is not a racing specific activity. Let me explain a little about my background. When an Aero engine company bids to supply engines for an airframe it submits its proposal with an accuracy of 2 decimal places for cost, efficiency, power, economy (operating cost) and weight. This degree of accuracy will be derived by assessing every sub assembly in the engine and the bid will make an assumption of what the state of expertise, in each area of the engine and design discipline, will be at the time of the engines launch (several years away). This bid will be the result of many thousands of hours work and will be constantly updated throughout the design process. The progress of each discipline and each component will be assessed throughout this process until the first engine test. The test will monitor thousands of performance parameters throughout the engine for maybe 10, 12 or 15 test engines, each being run dozens of times and being rebuilt regularly with new components, throughout the test program, which may last another 5 years. The data generated on each run will be analysed intensely and any parameter below target or any component showing signs of distress will be subjected to the utmost scrutiny, and, if necessary, redesign. Everyday I liaise with technical specialists and designers who are working at the absolute edge of knowledge for their particular discipline. Each discipline has its limits with respect to the accuracy of modelling and simulation, some are very accurate (stress and life) others disciplines are extremely difficult to model (fluid flow). Nevertheless, the team will have targets to achieve that assume certain advances in knowledge before they have been realised. Some targets are met early but some are late. The program is never permitted to drift without a thorough understanding of the reasons in the minutest of detail. I have not even touched on the extraordinary certification process in place that demands amazing levels of thoroughness and record keeping, such that even the simplest design change (bolt material) can take 18 months to incorporation (I kid you not).

I am not under any delusion of what is required, I don’t think (at this point) anyone could assess this accurately. If you are in the racing industry, and are involved in dynamic assessment of vehicles, then your input is more than welcome.

Rich

DaveW
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I take the lecture on board, Richard. Actually I was (I like to think, anyway) an aerospace engineer for the odd 30 years. You might like to look up XX341. That was one of mine.

I have also worked on the periphery of the racing industry for more years than I care to remember & currently help race teams of all flavours to better understand the mechanical properties of their vehicles. That experience leads me to believe that the racing industry is considerably more resourceful than you give it credit for. In short, I like your objective but can't imagine that any finite set of controls will have the effect you envisage, not for any length of time, anyway.

RAF
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=D> ^