Button signs for Mclaren

[ringo]

Alonso's most outstanding characteristic is his speed and his ability to metre it throughout the race. He's not necessarily independent of the pitwall like Button; i don't think he's as wise or calm as Button anyway.
His speed enables the other skills to be used effectively. People don't look at Alonso as a speed demon for some reason, but the man can qualify and his race pace is monstrous.
What makes him the joint best, is how he meters his speed. We saw it in Korea. All drivers do this if they are fast enough or the car is good enough, But Alonso does it more dynamically. He's a good dictator as well (Hamilton doesn't do this, haters complain too much) and his driving is not affected by confidence or how bad the car is.

The only man faster, arguably, than Alonso, by a hair, is Hamilton. I honestly don't see Vettel or Kubica close to Alonso on speed.
He's the joint best IMO becuase of speed. If it wasn't, then his rating as the best would be subjective. Take away 5 tenth's off Alonso's speed and what are we left with? He's not really flashy or pugnacious on track; he just goes very fast.

I don't think Button needs a team to be built around him per say. 2009, it seemed pretty balanced with Barichello and Button did very well. Button doesn't even need to be vocal and direct the team like Alonso to be top dog. What he needs is to be the flagship driver. The only way that happens is if his teammate is slower.
It's just not going to happen at Mclaren. Speed is everything there.

Mclaren had some pretty outrageous and colourful drivers over the years.
Senna, Prost, Lauda, Hakinen, Raikonen, Coulthard, Hamilton, Alonso, Montoya

What do these guys have in common? RAW SPEED.

[ringo]

When Jackie Stewart said Button was going into the Lion's den. I now realized it had nothing to do with treatment. It had to do with the fierceness of the competition.

Whitmarsh ran a little experiment bringing Button in; he's trying to benchmark Hamilton with the best drivers available.
I don't think he cared much for Button's interests in retaining the title, or how it will affect his ranking. He'll dispose of Button if he can't beat Hamilton, then reach for the next best driver, such as Vettel to benchmark Ron's terminator.


Button would have been comfortable and confident in Mercedes (assuming Nico wont give him hell) and would have a silver arrow capable of challenging in 2011. That team would be his.
Mclaren is just a short sighted goal, yes you have a better chance of retaining the title in 2010, but what about the other 2 years? Get your ass whooped by a 25 year old, soaking it all in, smiling to press and blaming the car. Losing sleep thinking about how you can fool lewis into using parts that don't work (monza ), trying to find an unfair advantage.

Button must be masochistic... in the Lion's den for 3 years.

[lebesset]

button went into a team heavily influenced by hamilton's style ; frankly I am a little surprised at how well he has done in his first year;although I am on record as saying that he wasn't going to get eaten as so many suggested , I thought it would take longer

but next year is going to be a more level playing field , neutral[ish] chassis , new tyres ..if the McLaren is competitive I believe that they will have the ideal driver pairing , one the fastest in the field , the other the most likely to finish in the money

I can't wait !

[Richard]

Ringo - In your opinion. You rate number 1 status over being part of a top level team.

In my opinion, he is more likely to end up with more podiums and fastest laps in his career if he is with McL than at Merc. He'll also enjoy the superb facilities and cash that comes with a team like McL. He can also tell his grandkids about the races when he race side by side on the track against Hamilton and beat him. He's done it this season and wil probably do it again.

To test this out, if Kubica was offered a seat at RB/Ferari/McLaren for 2011, would you advise him to jump or stay with Renault?

[ringo]

I would advise him to stay at Renault for 1 more year. I rate #1 status over being in a top level team, ie if it leads to being #1 in a top team in the future.

Aside from that Kubica can lock horns with Vettel or Hamilton. He can muscle his way.
His chances could be better. Button is not the brawler type that comes in and takes over like Alonso.

To put my theory into perspective.
Say Heiki never came to Mclaren, but hop scotched his way around avoiding the big boys, maybe going to toyota and beating up truli. Heiki would have held his value.

He can also tell his grandkids about the races when he race side by side on the track against Hamilton and beat him.

I'm waiting for the day.
Button can't finish ahead of Hamilton without some advantage, in the form of pitstops or completely different car setup. Hamilton knows the score now, and knows how to react to the Button mind games. Hamilton has also absorbed more from Button than Button can from him. Not in terms of driving or thinking, but in terms of expecting the unexpected and keeping tabs.
Button is too old now, to change his style to something like Lewis'. He hasn't done much in the tyre heating or dealing with a lose rear end. He's right not to change and mess up his style. Subsequently he'll learn less from Lewis, but he i s learning nonetheless.

Button's done well, shows he's consistent, smart. However he has been stomped in the latter races, showing up a few weaknesses that i never really thought affected him too much until this year.
Qualifying was an eye opener, so was the race pace myth, car setup and tyre nursing myth. All these could be tied to adaptability though.

Next year's car will be the same as this year's neutral and can be setup with both driver's in mind. It will only be bigger. I don't see it giving him a fairer chance. What helps him helps Lewis as well. I only hope Mclaren don't make the car into a W01.

"My conclusion? Two races before the end and I still have a mathematical chance of winning the title which is not bad for my first year at a new team. I can be reasonably happy."

"There were no prejudices," he added. "McLaren expected results only from me. Although the car was already developed, I could still give my input and take the car into a direction which suited me better. The team quickly realised that I wasn't only here for driving, that I wanted to be part of the team. Lewis also understood that two drivers see more than one, especially as the two of us have such different driving styles. The benefits from this coming winter will be even greater as I will be here from the start.

[ell66]

i dont understand how people can say jensons been close or closer to lewis than they expected. hes the fricken work champion and hes been soundly outpaced in literally allmost every race, and still trails by 20 points despite all the bad luck and incidents suffered by hamilton.

qoute from singapore "i got the maximum out of the car" after your team mate goes 4 tenths faster lol. its pretty funny actually.

[Richard]

pml - 20 points is less than one race win.

They are the closest pairing on points apart from RB.

Hamilton and Button are both "fricken world champions", so they are equal on the "frecken" score.

Button has finished ahead of Hamilton in 7 out of 17 races so far, that's not "soundly outpaced in literally almost every race"



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sorry

I let the facts get in the way again



Edit to correct the 7 out of 17 typo

[ell66]

pml - 20 points is less than one race win.

They are the closest pairing on points apart from RB.

Hamilton and Button are both "fricken world champions", so they are equal on the "frecken" score.

Button has finished ahead of Hamilton in 7 out 10 races so far, that's not "soundly outpaced in literally almost every race"



....

....

sorry

I let the facts get in the way again

7 out of 10 races? what are you talking about.

facts are lewis has been faster at pretty much EVERY venue. he's had 2 costly retirments due to mechanical failings, the gear box problem in japan, and being taken out by webber in singapore and hes STILL ahead of jenson.

there far from closly matched, the points are not a fair reflection in this case.

brb being 4-5 tenths slower than my team mate on a regular basis.

[raymondu999]

Button has finished ahead of Hamilton in 7 out 10 races so far

Sorry but I'm wondering what your filtering criteria is for the races? Which 10? And what happened to the other 7 races?

[Richard]

It was a typo. Button has finished ahead 7 times, Lewis 10 times, out of 17 races. That's not bad.

It is not "literally almost every race". Although that is an amusing oxymoron.

Funny that people disregard the points, yet it is the points that win a WDC, not suicidal overtaking moves, or fastest laps, pole positions, or strategies. There have been a few drivers who lost a WDC by forgetting that, most recently Hamilton in 2008 ... and possibly Vettel & Webber in 2010.

[raymondu999]

Oh. Right. Sorry. Didn't mean to nitpick, it just seemed weird that someone was randomly picking 10 races as a benchmark figure

[Richard]

Oh. Right. Sorry. Didn't mean to nitpick, it just seemed weird that someone was randomly picking 10 races as a benchmark figure

No worries, thanks for spotting it.

[wesley123]

It was a typo. Button has finished ahead 7 times, Lewis 10 times, out of 17 races. That's not bad.

It is not "literally almost every race". Although that is an amusing oxymoron.

Funny that people disregard the points, yet it is the points that win a WDC, not suicidal overtaking moves, or fastest laps, pole positions, or strategies. There have been a few drivers who lost a WDC by forgetting that, most recently Hamilton in 2008 ... and possibly Vettel & Webber in 2010.

Yes and off those 7 there are 3 where Hamilton had an DNF and 1 gearbox problem in Japan where he was faster. So in fact it is rather 4-13 for Lewis as (apart from Monza) He was ahead of Button in every race, and as said in Japan he was way faster. Furthermore when odds where even Hamilton drove the --- out of Button, that just cannot be discussed, that rather is a fact.

[timbo]

So why doesn't he convert his speed advantage into points. IMO that only speaks he's not mature as a driver.

[paipa]

Funny that people disregard the points, yet it is the points that win a WDC, not suicidal overtaking moves, or fastest laps, pole positions, or strategies.

They don't disregard that, Button is behind on points too. Fact is that with a second or third best car there's little chance for a WDC without ever attempting some suicidal overtaking moves. Due to some of those that succeeded, it is Hamilton who still has a slight chance to grab the WDC. I appreciate that Button didn't make any major mistakes but at the end of the day it didn't get him far enough.

You definitely need some luck in an inferior car, and that comes in the form of taking risks and getting away with them. Hamilton followed this philosophy and almost pulled it off. To be fair, Button did it too, albeit only strategy-wise. Those were his two victories.

here have been a few drivers who lost a WDC by forgetting that, most recently Hamilton in 2008

Did he? You might argue whether that McLaren was the second car or tied for best, but he didn't lose the WDC, that's for sure.