Button signs for Mclaren

[ell66]

So why doesn't he convert his speed advantage into points. IMO that only speaks he's not mature as a driver.

lewis has had 2 mechancical failures which cost him BIG points. jenson retired from monaco whilst running in 11th.

lewis has soundly beaten him on track, i honestly thought jenson would at least have a few weekends where he had more confidence/better pace than lewis...but its not been the case, good tire calls won him his early races not pace, and name ONE race where he's mixed it up with the bulls like alonso and hamilton have done all year long.

he is steady and brings points home at least, which will mclaren will like in there quest for constuctor's championships.

[astracrazy]

Yes and off those 7 there are 3 where Hamilton had an DNF and 1 gearbox problem in Japan where he was faster. So in fact it is rather 4-13 for Lewis as (apart from Monza) He was ahead of Button in every race, and as said in Japan he was way faster. Furthermore when odds where even Hamilton drove the --- out of Button, that just cannot be discussed, that rather is a fact.

i also believe Lewis has out qualified Jenson 12 to 5

(That 12 includes Japan - Lewis out qualified Jenson but was put 8th due to the grid penalty)

I have to say, you look at the race and quali statistics and wonder why Mclaren are choosing to still back Jenson IMO.

[ringo]

They need him at his best. I think they see the psychological effects that Massa is going through being Nando's little helper.
It's wise Whitmarsh gives Button a false sense of hope to at least keep him in the runnings up front.

Tazio mentioned Hamilton is not mature enough. I don't agree with that.
I don't think maturity fluctuates over a season. Hamilton has led the championship longer than any of the drivers out there. His lack of points had nothing to do with his own mistakes, but actual risks that were necessary at the time. Monza is the only mistake he's made all season.
I don't see Alonso as immature, but he's made more mistakes than Hamilton, luck just has it that he's ahead now with good driving in the last quarter and redbull having problems.

Hamilton was probably the best driver this year, along with Webber, given webber's abilities. 4 DNF and mechanical problems and he's still in the running. That's to show how strong he's been when he does finish.
Button has finished more but the pace is the only thing that's killing him.

Mclaren can still win both championships, but the WDC is more likely.

[wesley123]

well, I have to be even more critical, why did McLaren even choose Button? He is way overrated after his titel which he won with an car at least 6 tenths faster than the others. When Barrichello started winning Button had an hard time even scoring points, he is way overrated. Imo they should have kept kovalainen, then Hamilton would have been way closer and have some back up. When They both are in the last race and Button is First and Hamilton is Second, and with Hamilton needing to win to win the title(lets say with the win his championship is sure, with buttons win it isnt) Button will never ever let Hamilton past. I like how Button act to the press, but imo that guy is incredibly selfish.

[zeph]

FWIW, I think McLaren have a very well-matched driver pair. They seem to complement eachother, whatever that means

Just because they do not back one driver publicly does not mean anything. McLaren has always made a big deal about driver equality so they are not going to proclaim differently now.

Even if they did ask Button to back Hamilton for the remaining two races, we would not hear about it, unless someone let it slip accidentally.

For all we know they may have been favoring Hamilton all this time, or not. Although overshadowed by the Vettel/Webber collision, McLaren definitely used team orders at the Turkish GP.

[ringo]

well, I have to be even more critical, why did McLaren even choose Button? He is way overrated after his titel which he won with an car at least 6 tenths faster than the others. When Barrichello started winning Button had an hard time even scoring points, he is way overrated. Imo they should have kept kovalainen, then Hamilton would have been way closer and have some back up. When They both are in the last race and Button is First and Hamilton is Second, and with Hamilton needing to win to win the title(lets say with the win his championship is sure, with buttons win it isnt) Button will never ever let Hamilton past. I like how Button act to the press, but imo that guy is incredibly selfish.

He was open with his selfishness though. Mclaren never payed it any mind.
Mclaren is like a retirement home to him. He said he came there to challenge the best driver out there, so it seems he is more focused on getting kicks out of driving against Hamilton for 3 years, than really being a team player.
He gets the reality check now, Alonso made things look easy, Hamilton is not a cake walk.

My only hope is Mclaren don't focus too much on getting him up to speed in the last 2 races. It takes away from the time engineers needs to get the most out of the 25. Button is a lost cause for the rest of the season, and he still has that habbit of choking in the last half of the season.
He was making progress then completely lost it, at and after hungary. 2009 all over again, only that he's not leading.

[astracrazy]

McLaren definitely used team orders at the Turkish GP.

Maybe, in terms of Hamilton backing off because he was told too then Button over taking him

But i saw Hamilton fight back for the lead - Button didn't do a Massa

Then button was told to save fuel etc. which Hamilton was already doing so perhaps team orders but for them to hold station. Which is right after they just watched Red Bull muck up and it was valuable points for Mclaren.

For all we know it may have been legit and they were low on fuel..

[Richard]

I agree Hamilton is consitently faster in kph around most the tracks. However, his team mate who has carefully avoided "racing incdents" could hardly be closer to him in the WDC. One more Hamilton "racing incident" and Button will be ahead.

there have been a few drivers who lost a WDC by forgetting that, most recently Hamilton in 2008

Did he? You might argue whether that McLaren was the second car or tied for best, but he didn't lose the WDC, that's for sure.

China 08 - self inflected by gambling for the race win. If he had simply followed behind Kimi all day he would have been WDC.

I have to say, you look at the race and quali statistics and wonder why Mclaren are choosing to still back Jenson IMO.

The WDC & WCC tables might giev you a clue. Points win the WCC & WDC, not speed.

[jon-mullen]

And what has [Button] done? He's shown that, on average, he's slightly slower than Hamilton, and that he apparently picks up more points than you would have guessed from his pace. Additionally, he's gotten 2 wins in pretty tricky races.

Something like this, right?

[lebesset]

I would have thought that the best driver was the one that could win more often in a given car , not the one who drove fastest

the best driver , for me , in my time of following F1 , was jimmy clark [ a Scot ! a hard thing for someone English to admit ] ; he rarely drove flat out , his strategy seemed to be to get ahead if he could and then go as slowly as possible ; so I am unconvinced by the ...he's faster ....argument ;the 'if you want to finish first' line seems correct for me

I am not old enough to have ever seem fangio race , but a late member of my staff was and was there in a professional capacity ; I once asked him if fangio was really as good as he was said to be , and if he was , was there any particular feature of his driving that made him so ; he replied that fangio WAS that good , and his ability to judge the pace and have tyres left when it came to crunch time was his greatest strength

his view was that stirling moss was probably the faster driver [ as fangio himself apparently said ] , but fangio was the faster RACE driver , total elapsed time for a race being the criterion ; perhaps as moss was a beginner at the time and fangio at the peak of his career that is not surprising

so personally I see button in a different light to many ; this years tyres were the worst possible for him , one set of hard tyres able to do the whole race at many tracks ...hopefully pirelli will produce something that reflects the rules requiring a tyre change and allow more than one strategy

[ringo]

I never watched Clark live, but don't kill me if i say this; he had a pretty superior car his whole career though!
Superior cars allow you to take it easy, same for Fangio. I rate Clark more than Fangio since i've seen footage of him. He seems to be a pretty fast and flexible driver. He probably drove slower out of choice when leading at the front. The lotus was pretty much all he drove, somewhat similar career to Hamilton at Mclaren.

I don't think Button has had that luxury, i think he's going all out out. 2009 Button could have done this leading with a superior car, but now it makes no sense to do enough to finish when you're in fifth and sixth.

I don't know what to expect for next year with the tyres.

[lebesset]

ringo , it was a different era ; at that time F1 drivers drove in all sorts of cars in all sorts of races ; so my judgement of clark is based not just on his ability in an F1 car but his ability to adapt to the style required to make any type of car go it's fastest...it was was just uncanny

I remember when jimmy and graham hill were team mates at lotus graham would burn the midnight oil with his mechanics to get a setup he liked , jimmy used to say to his mechanics ...set it up to be as fast as you can ....and leave them to it ; whatever approach was required to get the maximum out of that car , he could do

when clark was killed , one of the other F1 drivers was reported as saying ...if jimmy can get killed , what hope is there for the rest of us ? all the other drivers of his generation acknowledged that he was in a class of one ...I don't remember that happening since

going back to button , I watched first practise in brazil ; in case you don't have availability of the BBC TV service , for the practise sessions the TV commentators are not present , the BBC have their pit reporters at work , but the commentary is done by the radio 5 team [in london ?], and they normally have a driver with recent F1 experience as part of the team

today's driver was gary paffet , and , not surprisingly , he was asked a lot about the chance of McLaren winning the championship , and gave realistic answers

he also said some other things that I personally found very interesting

button has been seriously disadvantaged by this years tyres , especially coming into a new team [ if I understood correctly ] ; however , pirelli have supplied preliminary data on next years tyres [ I presume to all the teams ] , and he was of the opinion that with the limited weight distribution changes combined with the new tyres button will have a much better chance to get a set up to his liking ; tyres could still change however

nobody seems to understand how button's set up for the last race could be so wrong [ one of the commentators , maybe paffet , called it an aberration ]; obviously there was no real set up time , but that was the same for all

it seems that normally the teams set up the cars from their data regarding the track , and the drivers get the best they can from tuning that set up ; however in brazil , button has been given permission to have the car as he thinks best for him, and do his own strategy [ that wasn't clear though] so far it is known that he has chosen both front and rear wings to the 'team' layout ; with nothing to lose it seems to me a good decision for the team to let him go his own way

he [ paffet ] spends about 50% of his time developing upgrades for 2010 , and the rest on the 2011 car ; he commented that lack of track practise seriously hampers thei ability to introduce up grades

he gets the odd day off to race in DTM , it appears that premat had a huge accident
at the last race , but escaped serious injury because the safety cell in a DTM car is to F1 standards

there's more but gtg , practise 2 started !

[Richard]

Thanks for the comments about Parfett. Out of interest, how much input can a test driver have into the development when testing is banned?

ps The radio 5 guys are at the track.

[segedunum]

Clark was the greatest driver ever. It's as simple as that. I certainly wasn't born then, but having read as much about him as possible you can only come to that conlusion. Easy on the car, completely even tyre wear all round when compared to other drivers and the ability to pull out time as he needed. It was all there. If he'd driven in a car using aerodynamics he would have been even further ahead.

It was amusing to hear about Senna's victory at Interlagos in 1991 and all the trouble he had. Try having gearbox trouble where you have to drive one handed to keep the gearstick in place or driving around Monaco still setting fast laps without the rear suspension attached properly. The guy was astounding and he only talked about this stuff by accident.

As for Button, I think he's done a good job against an established team mate as Graham Hill did when he joined Clark at Lotus. Button needs to find a better way with that car for next year in qualifying. If he improves in qualifying than Hamilton should be worried.

[ringo]

I was going to mention Clark's racing in other series, that's why i said he was flexible. He's definitely one of the greatest; not "The" IMO, but one that stands out. His speed more than anything else is what i notice; i'm not sure about other subtleties. I got the lotus dvd set, i have't watched it as yet though.

About Button,
Button can't improve anymore than he has already. He's 30 years of age with 10 years in the game.
His tyre problem is just part of his natural limits. It is present no matter what changes are made.
In race and in qualifying Hamilton is comfortably ahead. Hamilton can even preserve the tyres better, becuase he seems to understand them more.

I don't think Button has been disadvantaged by this year's tyres in a big way, unless we are assuming he's better than he is. Or he gave us the perception he's better than what he's showing us this year. A good driver should learn how to deal with every challenge that presents itself.
Before the beginning of the season, it seemed this reasoning was generally accepted, and Hamilton was the incomplete driver without the skill to save tyres.
Now that myth has been debunked since we've witnessed that adaptable drivers adapt to more than the feeling of the car, but also to tyres and regulations better.

I see this tyre problem more of a confidence and comfort issue than driving style. Button has all the telemetry to figure out what Hamilton is doing with the tyres. He may be reluctant to switch up his approach to driving, or it's possible he risks losing control if he drove more on the edge.

Autosport used the word gamble to describe Button's Brazil approach. I hope it works out for him. Another Korea race is the last thing he wants.