Mercedes GP MGP W01

[xpensive]

Why indeed, when just could have kept the 100 million GBP he had secretely stashed away under the mattress,
while leading people to believe the team was broke?

[segedunum]

Reason the W01 dosnt work is the CoG is too high, the cooling is compromised and the ballance of the car is poor.......

Whose fault is that? They had an exceptional base car to work off last season that gave them a massive headstart and with a stable set of regulations, certainly mechanically and aerodynamically, should have been carried straight into this season. Just look at the advantage they have thrown away from last season to this. I hear this word 'compromise' bandied about a lot but there was no reason for this car to be a compromise. The hard work had been done.

As for Brawn, he is as blase about success with Mercedes as I have seen him. He simply doesn't care. If it happens then great, but if the Stuttgart honchos get in the way he's going to sleep soundly on that mattress.

[segedunum]

It is nowhere near the crap Honda produced in 2007 and 2008, so I do not see this all that bad....

Remember, marcush, that Honda won their first race in 2006 and things were really looking up. We've heard these Honda comparisons before.......

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

As for Brawn, he is as blase about success with Mercedes as I have seen him. He simply doesn't care. If it happens then great, but if the Stuttgart honchos get in the way he's going to sleep soundly on that mattress.

Tell you what, you do it! Seems you can criticise in your ivory tower, But I know for a fact you could do no better.
Perhaps keeping schtum and letting the EXPERTS take care of problems they KNOW about rather than questioning them at every oppurtunity would be a constructive way forward?

[segedunum]

How you, I, marcush, xpensive or anyone else could do is irrelevant. That's why we have this forum.

You compare Mercedes directly to other teams who do know what they're doing and have been through the same processes and there is a definitely a gulf there.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Marcush succintly put it, that the team are CONSISTENTLY in Q3.

As you say "we judge them against other teams", this means they are better than most and do not warrant your constant haranguing of them.
Bottom line is these guys are 4th, and you say they are a joke.

That in itself is a joke!

[ESPImperium]

Reason the W01 dosnt work is the CoG is too high, the cooling is compromised and the ballance of the car is poor.......

Whose fault is that? They had an exceptional base car to work off last season that gave them a massive headstart and with a stable set of regulations, certainly mechanically and aerodynamically, should have been carried straight into this season. Just look at the advantage they have thrown away from last season to this. I hear this word 'compromise' bandied about a lot but there was no reason for this car to be a compromise. The hard work had been done.

As for Brawn, he is as blase about success with Mercedes as I have seen him. He simply doesn't care. If it happens then great, but if the Stuttgart honchos get in the way he's going to sleep soundly on that mattress.

The cooling issue is caused by having a fuel tank that is too large in width, and the CoG is compromised as they based their car off the BGP001, that was already compromised by an Mercedes engine that was the massive amount of 32mm higher than the Honda engine it was designed for.

Yes the car is a compromise, but its a bloody good one. The advantage they had in 2009 was eradicated over the winter by other teams designing their 2010 cars arround the DDD and optomising it better than the BGP001 had done, and in the case of Mclaren and Red Bull they had 2 unique features on their cars as well. So all the advantage they had from 09 to 10 had gone in a few short months.

The brawn was arround 1.0-1.5 seconds a lap on average at the start of the 2009 season, and gained an extra second over the season. The Red Bull was the next quickest car, but developed arround 1.7-2.2 seconds over the season, leaving the BGP001 arround 0.2-0.5 seconds faster at the end of 2009. The off season saw McLaren, Ferarri and Red Bull overhaul that, leavint the W01 arround a second off the pace. With development, they gained about half a second over the year, leaving the Renault R30 to overhaul that, and if it werent for a weak second driver at Renault, the W01 would have easily been the 5th best car of 2010.

It isnt down to facilities or personell or creative tallant, i just think the Mercedes MGP W01 is a car lost in a transistion, a car that lacks optomisation, something you just dont get in a transistion. And transistions are all ultimatly down to time, and how much they have, and this is where the MGP W01 has has iss battle lost.

[xpensive]

Marcush succintly put it, that the team are CONSISTENTLY in Q3.

That fact is only thanks to the driving genius of Rosberg and MS, with an averge talent, like Hamilton or Vettel,
they would barely make it out of Q1 with that dog of a car.

[segedunum]

Yes the car is a compromise, but its a bloody good one. The advantage they had in 2009 was eradicated over the winter by other teams designing their 2010 cars arround the DDD and optomising it better than the BGP001 had done....

Where does this word 'compromise' keep coming from? There was no reason for this car to be any kind of compromise given the stable set of regulations in place. The RB6 wasn't.

The fact is that that team did not manage to keep pace with the advantage and the continuity they had, and they had a significant headstart. Red Bull had to retrofit the double diffuser on to their car and they didn't fall as far behind as Brawn/Mercedes have done. They pioneered the double diffuser for crying out loud and should have been best placed for the next stage of development while everyone else frantically caught up - if they had a reliable handle on how everything worked, that is, which I don't think this team does.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Hmmm yea Williams and Toyota are doing even better than Mercedes arent they?

Maybe just maybe the 3 most complete teams in F1 did a better job than the smaller ones. Aiming battleship sized salvo's at Mercedes GP because they arent matching their overachieving 2009 championship winning year is ridiculous as it is unfair.

The W01 was contrived for reason well documented on these pages, by myself, scarbs, ESPI, Marcush and 747 heavy(others too).
This was evident from the first tests, Brawn even said they were in trouble due to the weight distribution in February.
Making mistakes is part of the business.

Learning from them is what sets the winners from the losers, Mercedes are making mistakes, give em a chance to let them learn from them.

[segedunum]

They're judged against other teams, which based on last year means how much ground they have lost to Red Bull, Ferrari and McLaren - and it's massive given the lead they had at the start of last year. Measuring them against teams behind and saying "They're better than most" isn't really telling us or the Stuttgart honchos anything.

The team won their first race in 2006. They ended up virtually last in 2007 and 2008. They won their first championship in 2009 and promptly gave up a massive advantage to their rivals, with the right engine to have no less, and ended up fourth this year.

I'd call that pretty questionable.

[segedunum]

[...]

[segedunum]

Unless of course you have knowledge that each and every member of staff suddenly changed with the commencement of Mercedes "sponsorship".

No I dont........which merely proves the point even more strongly. You and I both know that's the same team with the same people and track record.

If this follows previous discussions then it's going to quickly get ever more difficult to make sense of anything you write.

[ell66]

Reason the W01 dosnt work is the CoG is too high, the cooling is compromised and the ballance of the car is poor.......

Whose fault is that? They had an exceptional base car to work off last season that gave them a massive headstart and with a stable set of regulations, certainly mechanically and aerodynamically, should have been carried straight into this season. Just look at the advantage they have thrown away from last season to this. I hear this word 'compromise' bandied about a lot but there was no reason for this car to be a compromise. The hard work had been done.

As for Brawn, he is as blase about success with Mercedes as I have seen him. He simply doesn't care. If it happens then great, but if the Stuttgart honchos get in the way he's going to sleep soundly on that mattress.

The cooling issue is caused by having a fuel tank that is too large in width, and the CoG is compromised as they based their car off the BGP001, that was already compromised by an Mercedes engine that was the massive amount of 32mm higher than the Honda engine it was designed for.

Yes the car is a compromise, but its a bloody good one. The advantage they had in 2009 was eradicated over the winter by other teams designing their 2010 cars arround the DDD and optomising it better than the BGP001 had done, and in the case of Mclaren and Red Bull they had 2 unique features on their cars as well. So all the advantage they had from 09 to 10 had gone in a few short months.

The brawn was arround 1.0-1.5 seconds a lap on average at the start of the 2009 season, and gained an extra second over the season. The Red Bull was the next quickest car, but developed arround 1.7-2.2 seconds over the season, leaving the BGP001 arround 0.2-0.5 seconds faster at the end of 2009. The off season saw McLaren, Ferarri and Red Bull overhaul that, leavint the W01 arround a second off the pace. With development, they gained about half a second over the year, leaving the Renault R30 to overhaul that, and if it werent for a weak second driver at Renault, the W01 would have easily been the 5th best car of 2010.

It isnt down to facilities or personell or creative tallant, i just think the Mercedes MGP W01 is a car lost in a transistion, a car that lacks optomisation, something you just dont get in a transistion. And transistions are all ultimatly down to time, and how much they have, and this is where the MGP W01 has has iss battle lost.

how do you figure that? the red bulls were faster then the brawns at allmost every race from silverstone onwards.

[marcush.]

Schumacher is referring to his situation in MERC:

"Seitdem ich mit dem Chassis Nummer fünf unterwegs bin, auf das ich lange Zeit gewartet habe, ist die Situation wesentlich stabiler geworden. Unser aerodynamisches Paket, unser Auto funktioniert konstant. Seither läuft es auch bei mir. Ich komme besser mit dem Fahrzeug zurecht und kann es so fahren, wie es eben möglich ist."

Basically his words say: he has had to wait for Chassis No5 for a very long time to arrive and now as he got it the situation for him has improved significantly and has allowed him to exploit the package to the max and the car is operating with consistancy.He also states that now finally their aero is working now.
Question is what was wrong with the chassis Schu used before,as it was not a single one AND the part is homologated ,so cannot be modified ?