Please discuss here all your remarks and pose your questions about all racing series, except Formula One. Both technical and other questions about GP2, Touring cars, IRL, LMS, ...
Many times I have witnessed threads about what a dominant driver/team has to be so superior to the rest. The best example all the analysis about Schumacher/Ferrari 5 consecutive WC.
Some weeks ago Seb Loeb and Citroen won WRC for the 7th time in a row and I havent seen any of that in the forum!
We can say that Citroen is so much better, but then how can Dani Sordo never won a single Rally?
I have heard this french fellow started ralling at his mid 20s and has won everything he raced in.
What is he doing different in his driving technique to beat all the other drivers?
Last edited by mx_tifoso on 25 Nov 2010, 06:38, edited 1 time in total.
Reason:removed 'wtf' from title.
"You need great passion, because everything you do with great pleasure, you do well." -Juan Manuel Fangio
"I have no idols. I admire work, dedication and competence." -Ayrton Senna
It's not too farfetched that his ballet dancing experience helped sharpen his mind & pedal-kicking skills during "in-control/ out-of-control" situations. There's a fine line between doing consecutive pirouettes & rolling on the floor...
Personally, I'd rather forfeit 7 WRC trophies than wear a tutu...
I've never noticed Loeb doing anything really different, but he might. What I do notice is that he is very smooth and consistent, rarely doing those little mistakes that are so common during a stage in a rally. He seems like a circuit driver, but able to do that on an inconsistent surface that you do only a couple of times and not lap after lap. Which means he may not be pure speed but he has decent speed while avoiding costly little mistakes that others almost always do.
I've been censored by a moderation team that rather see people dying and being shot at terrorist attacks than allowing people to speak the truth. That's racist apparently.
what it is is just that he seems so calm, so constant and always prepared of what is next. I rarely know about mistakes about him, his crash (in i believe croatia last year) was his first ever crash where he destroyed a car. That guy drives just so incredibly clean it is incredible.
From what I've read from his interviews and some analysis by other rally drivers, what Loeb imposed to the sport was unspectacular driving (in that regard maybe we could say he's the Prost -or Button- of rallying):
-No more sliding. Circuit-type approach, the less time spent between corner entry and exit by elimination of sliding, countersteer, etc (everything spectacular). Although, unlike Prost, Loeb is still spectacular to watch (well, not him but his car) because when Prost was faster on a track by being clean it was quite boring, but being faster in rally leads you to steer tighter, jump higher and brake harder, which is fun to watch.
- The second point is physical preparation. Like Schumacher in F1, Loeb brung with him this athletical philosophy. Every professional driver must stay fit, but as a former professional gymnast Seb raised the level of that concept, being VERY fit to drive. THAT could be the crucial factor in making less mistakes, in such a physically demanding sport.
- Third is... Luck! Incredible luck. That sort of luck undispensable to be a champ 7 times. Other drivers had the quality to whistand his pace, but in the same tight trajectory they've hit a rock, putting the same wheel off the track they rolled while he didn't, etc. Ala Shumacher, again. No crappy failures at the wrong time, forgiveness from the car in mistakes...
- And lastly (probably it should have been the first point...) Loeb has an excellent co-driver, Daniel Elena, and a very proved pace notes system. That is probably the most intriguing factor, the harder to analyse, because pace notes quality depends of the driver's way of thining, and is further inflenced by his language. To be honnest even for a french it's not easy to decrypt what Elena tells exactly, for exemple I've not understood if the numbers linked to a corner are determined by the angle of the corner or the gear/ speed you have to carry in. Also, they use short words to describe essential thing, it's a complicated language I found. If I traduct a few corners in english, it gives something like: "long right 6 on left 4 plus plus, 600, right flat out on sky 180, half-long left no apex opens on long right 5, rock"... Something like that. Hard to say if the codes used by other drivers are better or not, because it's something very "tweaked" to a driver's mind. I believe here lies the most "tenth gaining" factor, in the thousands of seconds gained at every instruction by understanding them as instinctively as possible.
I think those kind of pace notes are normal. Everybody uses some language like this. I think important is that the notes are correct and that the co has the right timing to say them.
From driving rally and F1 games I think rally is much more demanding.
The most important thing is concentration.
In rally you need to concentrate all the time and every corner. Often the corners are so close together that you can’t relax for a couple of tents. Even before entering a corner you must know how the next one looks like because you have to place the car for it. That’s why the timing of the pace notes is so essential.
Playing rally games I even got something like a cramp in my hand.
Circuit racing is much easier compared to this. As you are driving the same track over and over again you don't need to think anymore about it. Even without special concentration you can drive around 98% of the max pace.
Usually in a race that is enough.
That’s another difference between rally and circuit racing. In rally everybody is racing the time. The faster you go the better. In circuit racing you have to stay in front of opponent. When the following car comes within 1 second to you his pace will drop. In rally the action starts then.
Motorsport is a mind game. You need to be super concentrated over a long period of time without relaxing your brain and body. Then you must also withstand the pressure of the competitors. When they come close don't get nervous and overdo the car. This sounds so easy but it's really hard.
Not in any way wanting to try and take anything away from Leob and his achievements, but rally has suffered considerable loose of support over recent years. it does not seem to attract the drivers and manufactures it once did. a 2 manufacturer series is rather poor and he has always been in the better of the teams.
it is impossible to compare drivers from different eras in any sport and no less so in rallying.
but as said above it is a combination of factors that must be the answer, he is a complete driver in every way and clearly has a car and team that understand him and go in the (development) direction that suits his style. he was also quick in an F1 test a couple of years back so its not all the car.
Competition vise WRC really sucks unfortunatelly. Loeb is rather exeptional in terms of character, always keeping his for himself, unbelievably efficient.
The things you said vyselegend are interesting. Although all ralliers have codifiedpace notes, the level of understanding between both is key thing I guess.
Its also true that people tends to think about Loeb´s dominance like Schumacher-Ferrari one: very talented, very fit, very hard workers, with the best car and a weak competition.
"You need great passion, because everything you do with great pleasure, you do well." -Juan Manuel Fangio
"I have no idols. I admire work, dedication and competence." -Ayrton Senna
vyselegend made a very good point about the pace notes and the co-driver (among others). Good preparation is the best way to eliminate errors.
nae wrote:Not in any way wanting to try and take anything away from Leob and his achievements, but rally has suffered considerable loose of support over recent years. it does not seem to attract the drivers and manufactures it once did. a 2 manufacturer series is rather poor and he has always been in the better of the teams.
I heard an interesting thought recently about this. I think it was someone from Radio Le Mans who said that Loeb could be one of the unluckiest rally drivers, as he happens to race in an era where he can't show just how good he actually is. The opposition he has isn't just being constantly beaten by him, but beaten way too easily at times.
