Low Cost F1

[Richied76]

I had an idea that would be both enforceable and cost effective. No budget limit, no regulations that limit creativity...Just a material limit. 25kgs of titanium per car 500lmtrs of carbon or a maximum of 4 weaves (would also help stop flex wing possiably) 3kgs of iron, ect ect ect..Obviously the exact amounts would have to be decided by people far more clever than me. Make the safety tests even more strict, standard wheelbase, wing hight and roll bar hight..but let them run free with design.

Discuse....

[pascaljackson]

materials are not the main expenses, just a tiny part

[Jersey Tom]

Agreed. Raw materials are a drop in the bucket.

Really think the only way to make it a "cost-effective" series is to treat it like a pro sports league and have a salary / budget cap. Have the teams report the accounting, and audit them.

[Formula None]

Really think the only way to make it a "cost-effective" series is to treat it like a pro sports league and have a salary / budget cap. Have the teams report the accounting, and audit them.

I agree. If its about money, why go through a bunch of byzantine regulations (speaking in an F1 sense here, not necessarily to OP's proposal) to stop development in every unforseen area?

A simple budget cap would immediately make the sport more affordable, and you wouldn't have to constantly stifle creativity. You might get some creative accounting ala Flavio, though. All the subprime brainiacs would be getting hired off of wall street to go work for F1

24 Hours of LeMons is a perfect (and successful) example of this principle. The diversity of entries is absolutely amazing, and the racing is great for what it is. Apples to oranges maybe, but simply having cars that look different I think creates a lot of appeal (despite what all the marketing guys say about fans not caring about the tech of the cars).

[marcush.]

is there a budget cap in LeMans racing?
it is in my opinion a special case and representative for sportscar racing as such .
But really capping the money spent is the ways to go .Virgins 40Mill are enough in my view and drop all the idiotic rules.

[machin]

I just don't see how a budget cap would work; No one has ever managed to convince me that they can stop a "technical partner" from developing the next new-fangled-gizmo for £500M and gifting it to the teams as part of a "sponsorship deal".... or a team spending £1Billion developing a new transmission system for their high-performance "road-car" concept and then "oh look it fits on our F1 car too, fancy that!".

The problem with F1 is that the cost isn't in the materials -its in the design team and faciliities.... too easy to hide away a design team somewhere methinks....

[machin]

OK.. variation on the original poster's idea:-

Make 12 identical 30x30metre workshops with lead lined walls, give them a finite amount of material, a cnc machine and an autoclave, a set of Pirelli tyres, and no access to a computer. Seal in a team of 20 men for a year and feed them through a hole in the wall. No other rules. See what they can come up with!

Low cost, promotes innovation, brilliant eh?

Stick in some cctv cameras and you've got big brother for nerds!

[ESPImperium]

is there a budget cap in LeMans racing?
it is in my opinion a special case and representative for sportscar racing as such .
But really capping the money spent is the ways to go .Virgins 40Mill are enough in my view and drop all the idiotic rules.

And Virgin are now looking at the figure of $555m to $60m a year just to be at the level of where Toro Rosso were at this year, albeit arround a few tenths off that in raw lap time, but a massive improvement on where they are.

What id do is this. Make teams develop a car over two or three years, two would be ideal. Limit them to only manufacturing 7 chassis (tubs) of ther those two years. Keep rules stable for a period of 5 years with that. Only close saftey lopholes off. But with that, id allow teams greater scope in terms of development, but at a price, and that price is that each car cannot use up any more than 100kg of fuel per race, standardise the fuel tanks in otherwords.

However, to reduce costs futher, id outlaw 60% models in the wind tunnel, and only allow each team 7 full days of tunnel testing each year, but at full scale. But with that id open up testing at cuircits, with each team allowed to do 8 hours testing with a reserve driver at 5 Grand Prix ever year, excluding street cuircits. Id limit the ammount of upgrades to 2 full and 3 detail per team per year.

Make teams rely on CFD more, and if parts dont work, the cost of that is increased, thus cutting wastage. The main area at the moment that you can cut is wind tunnels, if you cut them out, you could probably take up to 30% off the budget of a team. CFD is only about 7% of an average teams budget i read somewhere. One other big area of the budget is the Rapid Prototyping department, model making can take up to 20% of a budget.

Team Budgets are roughly as follows:

Ferarri = $480m
McLaren = $325m
Red Bull = $285m
Mercedes = $205m
Renault = $165m
Williams = $135m
Sauber = $125m
Force India = $108m
Toro Rosso = $95
Team Lotus = $78m
Virgin = $44m
Hispania = $34m

If i were the FIA, id try and get the teams to reduce the costs by making them run a car programme over 2 years, so for example the F10 would become the F10B or the RB6 would become the RB6B. However id also allow a single year opt out for teams that didnt come P4 or higher in the constructors table, meaning that they could opt out of a new car for one from fresh to get things closer to the cars ahead of them.

[MugenHonda]

Team Budgets are roughly as follows:

Ferarri = $480m
McLaren = $325m
Red Bull = $285m
Mercedes = $205m
Renault = $165m
Williams = $135m
Sauber = $125m
Force India = $108m
Toro Rosso = $95
Team Lotus = $78m
Virgin = $44m
Hispania = $34m

To me spending over $100m is just unneeded and with the recession F1 is losing small teams and manufacturs pulling out F1 needes to cut costs and fast. The cost of the chassic isn't the cause because Virgin spent a max on the car and updates and during the year the car become faster and more reliabile. Ferrari mclaren and Red Bull should cut the costs.

[autogyro]

Ferrari, McLaren and Red Bull are not likely to agree to cut their spending when they are at the front and gaining from their investments are they.
There is only one person who could make this happen and we all know who he is.
Like him or not, there is no one else.
Without such change F1 is on a limited future IMO.

[hecti]

The recession is over btw...
F1 will never be low cost, its a fact. If you go into f1 you better have deep pockets, its the only way you'll be able to compete and win.

[flynfrog]

I just don't see how a budget cap would work; No one has ever managed to convince me that they can stop a "technical partner" from developing the next new-fangled-gizmo for £500M and gifting it to the teams as part of a "sponsorship deal".... or a team spending £1Billion developing a new transmission system for their high-performance "road-car" concept and then "oh look it fits on our F1 car too, fancy that!".

The problem with F1 is that the cost isn't in the materials -its in the design team and faciliities.... too easy to hide away a design team somewhere methinks....

I feel the same way machin. It will be set up simaler to how redbull and STR do there shared chassis now.

[Formula None]

is there a budget cap in LeMans racing?
it is in my opinion a special case and representative for sportscar racing as such .
But really capping the money spent is the ways to go .Virgins 40Mill are enough in my view and drop all the idiotic rules.

I don't know, I was referring to the LeMons series, which is a parody of LeMans here in the States, done in budget capped junk cars, aka lemons.

[Shrek]

is there a budget cap in LeMans racing?
it is in my opinion a special case and representative for sportscar racing as such .
But really capping the money spent is the ways to go .Virgins 40Mill are enough in my view and drop all the idiotic rules.

I don't know, I was referring to the LeMons series, which is a parody of LeMans here in the States, done in budget capped junk cars, aka lemons.

and they cost about $500 at the most so you can race with money left over

[flynfrog]

is there a budget cap in LeMans racing?
it is in my opinion a special case and representative for sportscar racing as such .
But really capping the money spent is the ways to go .Virgins 40Mill are enough in my view and drop all the idiotic rules.

I don't know, I was referring to the LeMons series, which is a parody of LeMans here in the States, done in budget capped junk cars, aka lemons.

and they cost about $500 at the most so you can race with money left over

currently campaigning a lemons car. the car may only cost 500 but racing it is still much more.